From what I understand a vehicle is rated at a towing capacity of X based on pretty much the entire vehicle design.  

I'd to discuss realistic expectations of towing. I read somewhere that a four door geo tracker can tow 2000 pounds.  I would assume that's only possible in relatively flat areas, with a trailer that has its own brakes.  I see all the time sidekicks and samurais  that are modified from just some big 31" tires to a vehicle that is basically only a suzuki frame and body with entirely different running gear and engine.  

So, that leads me to wonder... if you for example take the guts from a toyota 4x4 and plant them in a suzuki ... does that then bump up the towing ability?

Ok now that I've posed the hypothetical question lets get down to why I ask it.  I'm a VW guy.  I like the earlier water cooled golfs and such.  My daily driver is a 95 cabrio that I swapped in a VR6 engine, its about 3000 pounds. I also have a rabbit that clocks in at 2000 pounds. I'm wondering if I could build up a suzuki to haul around these cars on a tow dolly.  Now, understand, I have no desire of pully yachts or school busses.. just little cars so I can be my own tow truck. This would be ideal since the rabbit is going to be seeing autocross action and it would be good to not have to call AAA if I break it at the track.

I'm imagining a truck frame and rear end.  I could picture reinforcing the frame and fitting a big rear running gear from a bigger truck.  Is this just a delusion or something feasible?

to up the towing capacity the proper papers need to be signed off on, engineers will need to be hired to make sure the  frame will do the heavier weight, blah blah blah. to much hassle and money.

dont know where you are getting they can only tow 1500 lbs, my hitch on my 2dr 8V says 2000. ive pulled that in the hills no problem, its no speed demon but it pulls allright. even does good on the highway with that much weight. doesnt even squat that bad.

i do say that trailer brakes would be a good idea. if not for laws but for the security knowing your not having to stop a trailer with a little sidekick or samurai. its not getting the trailer moving thats the hard part, its slowing it back down before the bottom of the hill and the corner that always is there.

the idea wasn't to have the DMV to certify the car for increased tow capacity.

I just mean ... can a suzuki be built up for safely towing 3500 lb trailers?

In NJ if you register the car as historic a lot of things that would be illegal with a normal registration are perfectly legal.  I believe it amounts to having functional basic safety stuff.   The real worry is if you get pulled over the LEO can write you a ticket whether you're legally 'in the right' or not.  That's more a matter of boro budgetary policy (read: traffic tickets as a tax).  Anyway all of this is really kind of unrelated to my question.

sorry about the 1500 lb figure I haven't found a good site with specs.  I found 2000 at first but before I posted I couldn't find that one again.  Too many junk sites out there with car 'information'.

From what I understand a vehicle is rated at a towing capacity of X based on pretty much the entire vehicle design.  

I'd to discuss realistic expectations of towing. I read somewhere that a four door geo tracker can tow 2000 pounds.  I would assume that's only possible in relatively flat areas, with a trailer that has its own brakes.  I see all the time sidekicks and samurais  that are modified from just some big 31" tires to a vehicle that is basically only a suzuki frame and body with entirely different running gear and engine.  

So, that leads me to wonder... if you for example take the guts from a toyota 4x4 and plant them in a suzuki ... does that then bump up the towing ability?

Ok now that I've posed the hypothetical question lets get down to why I ask it.  I'm a VW guy.  I like the earlier water cooled golfs and such.  My daily driver is a 95 cabrio that I swapped in a VR6 engine, its about 3000 pounds. I also have a rabbit that clocks in at 2000 pounds. I'm wondering if I could build up a suzuki to haul around these cars on a tow dolly.  Now, understand, I have no desire of pully yachts or school busses.. just little cars so I can be my own tow truck. This would be ideal since the rabbit is going to be seeing autocross action and it would be good to not have to call AAA if I break it at the track.

I'm imagining a truck frame and rear end.  I could picture reinforcing the frame and fitting a big rear running gear from a bigger truck.  Is this just a delusion or something feasible?

Towing capacity on a 4 door trackick is 1500lbs.

to up the towing capacity the proper papers need to be signed off on, engineers will need to be hired to make sure the  frame will do the heavier weight, blah blah blah. to much hassle and money.

dont know where you are getting they can only tow 1500 lbs, my hitch on my 2dr 8V says 2000. ive pulled that in the hills no problem, its no speed demon but it pulls allright. even does good on the highway with that much weight. doesnt even squat that bad.

i do say that trailer brakes would be a good idea. if not for laws but for the security knowing your not having to stop a trailer with a little sidekick or samurai. its not getting the trailer moving thats the hard part, its slowing it back down before the bottom of the hill and the corner that always is there.

Just because a hitch that you bolt on a vehicle can tow 2000lbs, doesn't mean the vehicle can safely handle that much.  Look in your owners manual, it will not say the towing capacity is 2000lbs.  From what I remember, 2 door trackicks have a towing capacity of 1000lbs.

Can a Tracker be designed to safely tow 3500 lb's?  Only if you drop it on a full size truck frame.  In case of trailer brake failure you would have to stop over twice the weight the vehicle was designed to stop.  Combine this with going down the hill and the trailer would most likely just push your vehicle out of the way. 

Here is some info pulled from a 92 owners manual:

Gross Trailer Weight is the weight of the
trailer plus all cargo in it (measured with
the trailer disconnected from the towing
vehicle). Gross trailer weight must never
exceed:
2-Door Model - 1,000 pounds (450 kg)
4-Door Model - 1,500 pounds (680 kg)
If you have a 4-door model and intend to
tow a trailer having a gross trailer weight
greater than 1,000 pounds (450 kg), the
trailer must be equipped with trailer
brakes.
Gross Combined Weight is the weight of
the fully loaded vehicle (including driver,
passengers, and cargo) plus the weight
of the fully loaded trailer. Gross combined
weight must never exceed:
2-Door Model - 4,200 pounds
(1,905 kg)
4-Door Model - 4,600 pounds
(2,087 kg)
Tongue Weight is the downward force exerted
on the hitch by the trailer coupler,
with the trailer fully loaded and the
coupler at its normal towing height.
Cargo should be distributed so that
tongue weight is approximately 10% of
gross trailer weight.

We aren't trying to be rude, it's just not safe to try and pull that much around with a small vehicle on public roads.  Suzuki or any other.

I know you're not trying to be rude.  Not for nothing, if I thought something was unsafe on a road I probably wouldn't do it offroad either heh. 

I'm really just kicking ideas around here.  I some times see the big wheeling rigs and wonder what they could pull with a big brake setup. The most likely vehicle I'd look into buying would be either an old minivan or a jeep cherokee.  Not the most interesting choices but they do fit my need way better than a regular full size truck would. 

Is there a thread on this forum with in depth specs?  I'd love to see things like brake drum dimensions etc etc.

There's something I want to point out here - if you get together the different owner's manuals for the equivalent Suzuki vehicle as sold in the different markets - in other words - comparing a Geo Tracker to it's equivalent Suzuki SideKick (US Market), and Suzuki Vitara (pretty much the rest of the world), you will find that the tow capacity varies - I believe the US market has the lowest numbers.

There is a liability issue to be considered rather than just what the car can tow and should you be involved in an accident whilst towing in excess of the rated capacity, there will be insurance issues to be considered.

Why not just buy a larger vehicle to tow your track car.

I looked into this with my last Kick. I wanted to tow my 89 Kick behind another kick on long trips. But after doing the research of trailer weights, vehicle weights, towing capacities and tongue weight max allowed weight I scrapped the idea. Even with going with a first generation XL-7 (new at the time) I was borderline towing capacity with the vehicle and trailer, then add in gear, passengers, and the required cooler of beer (for campfires after the rides of course  ) I was over the limit. I was more concerned with over working the tow rig than I was with getting a ticket. When you put a motor/tranny under the constant load of pulling over twice it's weight, it's not going to last long....

Zig

Why not just buy a larger vehicle to tow your track car.

That's likely what I will do.  But I always wondered about about this question of mine... and I do see people building some crazy things.  Gotta keep thinking about whats possible not just assuming it can't be done.  The logical side of me says, 'vehicles are rated at a certain capacity based on how the overall vehicle is designed and what the mfr' expects people to do with it'.  The imaginative side of me says, well specifically makes a vehicle able to tow more? I like to think out of the box.  I always have saftey and practicality in mind regardless regardless if I'm thinking very hypothetically or if I'm considering what vehicle to drive for towing.

When you put a motor/tranny under the constant load of pulling over twice it's weight, it's not going to last long....

Absolutely.  Even cars that have 'tow packages' I'd surely consider a serious transmission cooling setup.  Especially if its something like a FWD minivan or other 'tow worthy' vehicles.  But thats an outside part of my idea; figure that part out once you get past theoretical stuff... like ... 'can it even work?'

Well, a larger engine, new axles, beef up the frame you could probably tow quite a bit more.  But at that point I would just drop it on the 1-ton frame. 

My 4door -92 Vitara (tracker) can tow 3850lbs in stock form.  This is what suzuki says is the maximum limit. However, this is WITH trailer brakes.

Trailer brakes is not a problem here in sweden, all trailers over 1100lbs is requiered to have it or your maximum speed limit will be 20mph.

Even my 86 samurai can tow 3050lbs legaly with brakes.

My 4door -92 Vitara (tracker) can tow 3850lbs in stock form.  This is what suzuki says is the maximum limit. However, this is WITH trailer brakes.

Trailer brakes is not a problem here in sweden, all trailers over 1100lbs is requiered to have it or your maximum speed limit will be 20mph.

Even my 86 samurai can tow 3050lbs legaly with brakes.

This is what I was talking about - compare these numbers with the ones Drone 637 posted earlier (5 or 6 posts up) - he says 1500lbs, and cites the owner's manual as his source - the numbers change according to the market the vehicle is being sold in, and I'm pretty certain legal liability is the reason, rather than the vehicle's actual tow rating.

At the end of the day, sure most vehicle might be able to tow more than their rated capacity.  But if you're in a accident, towing over your rated capacity, you make it very easy for your insurance company to claim you were purposefully negligent and not have to pay out.

At the end of the day, sure most vehicle might be able to tow more than their rated capacity.  But if you're in a accident, towing over your rated capacity, you make it very easy for your insurance company to claim you were purposefully negligent and not have to pay out.

So will your insurance company accept the figures in your owner's manual or mine?