ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: ddevil on June 10, 2006, 05:45:17 AM
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is it common place to remove the swaybar on trackers? i've read this a couple places and just wondering what the benefits are and most importantly(because i know what one benefit would be) what the cons are to it if any?
mike
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Yes, it's very common.
you'll barely notice it's gone.
Makes a softer ride too.
BTW: mines lifted and I've removed them
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I personaly would not remove it with stock worn springs/struts... But if your struts are good and you have good spring, take it off. It is a nicer ride, better flex/droop, with only minor body lean like on on-ramps. But c'mon this ins't a sports car, you learn to live with it... ;D
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I don't own a vehicle with a swaybar, it's one of the first things I remove from my 4x4's.
I've taken it off of high mileage stock Trackers and my lifted Tracker didn't come to me with one so I can say I don't see the need for one at all. They drive fine without one. Your springs and struts would have to be so old, worn out, and rusted that they were virtually completely useless to make a difference.
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Its pretty subjective, I didn't like the way mine handled with no swaybar even with new shocks and struts on a 6000 mile vehicle. When I fitted 1 1/2" wheel spacers the handling was restored to stock. I had the spacers from another project so it didn't cost if I was going to pay money I would get offset rims. It doesn't take long to put the swaybar back on so give it a go and see how it feels to you.
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cool, thanks guys. i'm going to take it off and see how it goes for now, then when i get my strut mounts flipped and my spring spacers in i'll see how that is too...
mike
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If you just want to see if you like it, just un-do the link from the A-arm, and flip it up, no need to completely take it off(it's only a 12mm nut per link, easy to do). I did this with mine to see if I would notice a difference.... I broke the links away from the bar, so there was no turning back for me. Good thing I didn't notice a difference in handling ;D
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Does doing this give you noticably more flex?
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Does doing this give you noticably more flex?
I noticed a big difference with mine off, I tested it out on a loading ramp at work.
I don't have any strut extensions in in these pics, I know it's not worthy of a flex picture, but I really wanted to see what happened without a sway bar, before the front would not move separatly like this, it would a little, but not this much.
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c180/uncivilized121/Flexed01.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c180/uncivilized121/Flexed03fixed.jpg)
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The simple difference in the amount of road vibrations and road "feel" that you DON'T get with the bar off makes it a worthwhile mod.
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well i took my swaybar off my tracker last evening and took it to the store today and i immediately noticed an improvement going down my driveway. but my driveway is about 1/4 mile long and all stone/shell. at one part there's a ditch the water has dug going across the driveway and before it was a really jolting bump to cross but now it didn't feel like such a jolt. also i noticed that when i drove one side up onto the side of the driveway which is higher than the driveway that the tracker didn't tilt as it did before but the suspension actually got to do some work. over all i like it, can't tell that much of a difference on the road but i'm certain it's a big improvement for off roading.
mike
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I recently took mine off as well and the difference is quite noticeable, in a good way. Way nicer ride on the street and off-road it is MUCH improved.
Jeff
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I had mine off for a while. the ride was really soft and off road the front suspension was so active and nice I couldn't believe it and my suspension was stock! it was really fun to slolom it with people in it cause it would freak them out. it really leaned far. there were a few times going over rail road tracks on a corner and stuff that it felt iffy. probably mostly cause my rear shocks were stock and crap. I put it back on and it goes around corners much much better and I feel much mor ecomfortable at higher speeds. I personally think it's best to have disconnects on sway bars so you can have the stability on the road and have the suspension actually work off road cause you'd be amazed how much teh sway bar freezes up the stock suspension. I'd try and find a way to disconnect it cause my 2nd gen was pretty tippy feeling without the sway bar.. (not as bad as I thought it would be though)
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Bah. Wuss. ;)
My wife has driven ours without the bar for almost a year now and she thinks she's Mario Andretti. :P
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NO, YOU SHOULD NOT TAKE IT OFF....
In fact, it would be wise of you to carry a spare when you go offroad because it's the most commonly broken part on trackers. I can sell you a good replacement if you like. Comes with everything you need so that you will be able to continue your wheeling adventure and not have to bow out like the Jeeps do...
Just kidding. I think everyone takes them off as soon as they get any sort of lift out of the springs.
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Bah. Wuss. ;)
My wife has driven ours without the bar for almost a year now and she thinks she's Mario Andretti. :P
I drove mine for a good four months or so and it wasn't that bad but I really think it would be best to find a way to make it disconnectable. I didn't really notice how much it helps on the road till I put it back on
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Bah. Wuss. ;)
My wife has driven ours without the bar for almost a year now and she thinks she's Mario Andretti. :P
I drove mine for a good four months or so and it wasn't that bad but I really think it would be best to find a way to make it disconnectable. I didn't really notice how much it helps on the road till I put it back on
lol, well with that said then i guess i just won't put mine back on... :P
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lol, good idea
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ok def noob :P lol. can someone post a pic for me where it woudl be so i can tyake it off asap. after reading all this i dunno why zuki even puts em on. must be just to wreak our backs over bumps :P ;) lol
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ok def noob :P lol. can someone post a pic for me where it woudl be so i can tyake it off asap. after reading all this i dunno why zuki even puts em on. must be just to wreak our backs over bumps :P ;) lol
LOL, if you look under your kick, and can't tell what and where a sway bar is, you have no business disconnecting it...
Get under there and look, and think it through. That way you will get an idea of how it works too, and you will have learned something, instead of just following the masses and taking something off.
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hey nuthign worng with just taking stuff off :P lol. if someone couodl convince me id get better gas milage without the engin i'd take that out to lol awyas all joeks aside, i always thought the sway bars were under the hood like in sport compact cars. i was more the tuner type seeing as i'm 18 and never even thought of lookin under the car lol. but now thta i have my zuki i'd never go back to those rice fart can things lol. i gess if no one wants to tell me what to take off exactly trail and error sumtimesowrks :P lol peace guys
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Nope, that is a strut brace you are talking about.. nice thing to have on ANY MacPherson Strut vehicle.. really helps to solid it up.
What we are talking about here, is a metal bar, running from side to side, UNDER the vehicle, in this case, it is a FRONT sway bar. and it attaches with linkage, to each A arm. It keeps the vehicle more flat in turns, it doesn't allow full articulation of the front suspension. They are usually fairly important on road vehicles, but not actually needed. I don't like the feel of a road vehicle without a sway bar.. but it's personal preference, especially with stiffer suspension like some of us run (either through coil spacers, or different coils) and the truth is, they aren't SWAY BARS, they are ANTI-SWAY BARS... lol...
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Look for something that links each side of the suspension to the frame in one continuous peice. Literally just hang your head under the truck from the front and you'll see it under the front suspension.
That's your hint, use it wisely. ;)
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Dang, as I was typing the helpful info
2 people responded with it ;D
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hah thanx for the straight forward answers that time haha. now that u say that i can picture it in my mind of what it is without even lookin. see learn sumthign new each day and being 18 i have atleats 4 more years ahead of me to learn things. if i don't die doin sumthign stupid befor that then were doin good lol. tahnx again guys
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Nope, that is a strut brace you are talking about.. nice thing to have on ANY MacPherson Strut vehicle.. really helps to solid it up.
What we are talking about here, is a metal bar, running from side to side, UNDER the vehicle, in this case, it is a FRONT sway bar. and it attaches with linkage, to each A arm. It keeps the vehicle more flat in turns, it doesn't allow full articulation of the front suspension. They are usually fairly important on road vehicles, but not actually needed. I don't like the feel of a road vehicle without a sway bar.. but it's personal preference, especially with stiffer suspension like some of us run (either through coil spacers, or different coils) and the truth is, they aren't SWAY BARS, they are ANTI-SWAY BARS... lol...
just curious, how do coil spacers make it stiffer? I spose it it's way stiff once I install my coil spacers I could take my sway bar off if it's that bad. I have my sway bar on because I mainly use my GV as a daily driver. only going to gently off road it on ocasion from time to time. I get in a hurry or just feel like taking corners fast from time to time so the sway bar comes in handy. even with it in I'll have to quit that a bit when I lift it I'm sure.. lol. the new tires I'm getting in the fall or late summer will apreciate slower corners too
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Think of your suspension as a triangle with your lower control arm where it hits the knuckle as one end, where the lca mounts to the frame as another, and the upper coil bucket as the last point.
Adding coil spacers to this triangle means you're increasing the length of one side but not the others. You're effectively increasing the leverage exerted on the suspension so your effective spring rate goes up as well.
Dunno if that makes sense. It's not a lot but it is there.
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Nope, that is a strut brace you are talking about.. nice thing to have on ANY MacPherson Strut vehicle.. really helps to solid it up.
What we are talking about here, is a metal bar, running from side to side, UNDER the vehicle, in this case, it is a FRONT sway bar. and it attaches with linkage, to each A arm. It keeps the vehicle more flat in turns, it doesn't allow full articulation of the front suspension. They are usually fairly important on road vehicles, but not actually needed. I don't like the feel of a road vehicle without a sway bar.. but it's personal preference, especially with stiffer suspension like some of us run (either through coil spacers, or different coils) and the truth is, they aren't SWAY BARS, they are ANTI-SWAY BARS... lol...
just curious, how do coil spacers make it stiffer? I spose it it's way stiff once I install my coil spacers I could take my sway bar off if it's that bad. I have my sway bar on because I mainly use my GV as a daily driver. only going to gently off road it on ocasion from time to time. I get in a hurry or just feel like taking corners fast from time to time so the sway bar comes in handy. even with it in I'll have to quit that a bit when I lift it I'm sure.. lol. the new tires I'm getting in the fall or late summer will apreciate slower corners too
Yeah, what Blazer said... That is the main reason I won't use spacers.. Aftermarket coils are SUPPOSED to keep a stock, or stock like ride, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. To tell you the truth, I feel it's better to have a SOFTER ride than stock, and a GOOD set of off road shocks, instead of just jacking the damn truck up with any sort of spacer/ride height booster you can cram under there..
Another thing to Sidekick101.. you say your Tracker is harsh riding.. How much air pressure are you using on the street??
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it's making sense. the control arm has less leverage on the coil correct? well, I might be taking my sway bar off to soften the ride. I have pro comp es 1000's that work great in the back right now but they bottom out so that's part of why I'm putting the spacers on and bigger bottom out pads in the back. think I'll have to put longer struts on to which I'm not happy about because of the cost of ome's. I think the stock struts are likely shot cause the back shocks were about there so if I'm going to replace them I might as well do the ome's instead of screwing around
thanks for pointing out why spacers make a stiffer ride up front. quaddawg, I thought you had spacers? if you have lift coils what kind did you get?
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I'm pretty sure the struts hold up better than the shocks, in which case you could get away with a pair of extensions for $45 instead of OME struts for $250. If you do get the OME you might want to look around Zuwharrie, I remember seeing a guy that works at 4 wheel parts and said he could get the OME's for about $110 each.
By the way, click on Quadawg's pic to see his specs.
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crap, I wish I would have tried 4 wheel parts, I just ordered the struts from rocky road... spendy as hell. quaddawg's rig is pretty cool.
thanks anyway for the advice for cheaper struts... oh well
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i was gonna take it off today in auto class but the teacher told me not to cuz he was affraid it was gonna roll on the highway. any feedback?
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it's going to be touchy. just drive it really cautiously at first... treat it like it's as tippy as a 10 inch lifted bronco II until you get the feel of it
once you have the feel of it you should be fine
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The teacher's on crack. He's either A: buying into the myth that swaybars are actually vitally important components of the suspension or B: stupid enough to beleive that old myth about Samurais being tippy...which has in later years come to mean ANYTHING Suzuki/Tracker/etc.
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The teacher's on crack. He's either A: buying into the myth that swaybars are actually vitally important components of the suspension or B: stupid enough to beleive that old myth about Samurais being tippy...which has in later years come to mean ANYTHING Suzuki/Tracker/etc.
OR, he is limiting his liability, just think of the lawsuit possible if he allowed the student to remove his sway bar and the kid wrecked?
One more thing. If you do a consumer reports style collision avoidance with and without a sway bar, then you will see that indeed, a sway bar is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH safer in that type of situation. A hard braking and turning manuever without a sway bar, can indeed cause a rollover, especially if you are used to the same vehicle WITH a sway bar. That doesn't mean it's unsafe, I mean motorcyles wreck a WHOLE lot more easily, and they are safe in my opinion, you just drive them differently. That's the whole point I guess, take that sucker off, go and be careful, learn the new handling characteristics, and have at it. It doesn't make it undrivable, just DIFFERENT. Anyway that's my opinion. Yeah, without a sway bar, I can get a car or truck to pick up a back tire in an avoidance manuever, it's actually kinda fun.. hell, even my 49 Chevy had a sway bar stock!! If they have been putting them on for that long (and longer of course) they have to be doing something good...
(http://www.forumsigs.com/users/quaddawg605/49ChevAuction/underfront3.jpg)
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Bah. Driven responsibly, most 4x4's don't need a swaybar at all. Most 4x4's and trucks have stiff enough suspensions that they don't serve much of a difference. I've taken them off trucks and literally felt NO difference in anything.
I think they're there just for the OEM's liability mostly now-a-days. It's become accepted practice that they're there so they feel the need to put them there.
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Bah. Driven responsibly, most 4x4's don't need a swaybar at all. Most 4x4's and trucks have stiff enough suspensions that they don't serve much of a difference. I've taken them off trucks and literally felt NO difference in anything.
I think they're there just for the OEM's liability mostly now-a-days. It's become accepted practice that they're there so they feel the need to put them there.
I disagree completely, if it gives you more travel, it gives you less stability.
Have you ever been in a PANIC ACCIDENT AVOIDANCE situation? I mean serious brake and turn, with and without a swaybar? I am talking 50 mph, STAND on the brake and turn the wheel. I am not talking about ANYTHING else, because this is where the safety aspect comes in. Because if you haven't, you can't comment with any real information. I haven't done this in my Track, but I HAVE done it on a full size, just playing around and you could roll one if you wanted to, or couldn't drive well.. or weren't expecting it. ESPECIALLY if it were lifted.
It's just simple physics. Hagen, you want to comment on this?? I can take being disagreed with. But I know better on this one. Been driving TOO long, over 30 years...
I am not saying it's unsafe, I am just saying that sway bars DO make a vehicle handle flatter, if you don't agree, it's OK, I am used to people being WRONG.. .lol :o
Any other opinions?
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I drive a Samurai and in fact I did run into a high speed, stand on the brakes, cut the wheel, 60 MPH stop. Even with the sway bar I layed it on the drivers side and slid down the highway 40 feet. It took me and two Highway Patrol to roll her back on all four. With more flexing I might have put her on the roof instead..... It's the nature of the beast. So I say still go with what you know..... But I would consider making it removable if you plan on rock climbing.
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I disagree completely, if it gives you more travel, it gives you less stability.
Have you ever been in a PANIC ACCIDENT AVOIDANCE situation? I mean serious brake and turn, with and without a swaybar? I am talking 50 mph, STAND on the brake and turn the wheel. I am not talking about ANYTHING else, because this is where the safety aspect comes in. Because if you haven't, you can't comment with any real information. I haven't done this in my Track, but I HAVE done it on a full size, just playing around and you could roll one if you wanted to, or couldn't drive well.. or weren't expecting it. ESPECIALLY if it were lifted.
It's just simple physics. Hagen, you want to comment on this?? I can take being disagreed with. But I know better on this one. Been driving TOO long, over 30 years...
I am not saying it's unsafe, I am just saying that sway bars DO make a vehicle handle flatter, if you don't agree, it's OK, I am used to people being WRONG.. .lol :o
Any other opinions?
I agree. my GV handles much much flatter with the sway bar on and since it's mostly just a daily driver I keep it in. I didn't feel safe enough to go 80 or anything like I do with it in. could have but I think it's best I didn't. I think the best thing to do is make the sway bar removable so you have the added safety on the road and added capability off road when it's disconnected. a friend of mine has an 8 inch suspension lifted and 2 inch body lifted wrangler on 37's and keeps the sway bar in because on sidehills it gets iffy enough as it is with the sway bar in. I think on ifs vehicles that aren't as high it wouldn't be as big of a deal but his jeep is up there quite a ways and it has soft ride leafs. he apearently gets quite a bit of flex with the bar in but I haven't yet had the opportunity to see it flexed since it needs a bit of work at the moment.
I think having the sway bar disconnected is the ONLY way to wheel a first or second gen track/kick/vit because the front suspension doesn't really work without it and you gain quite a bit of flex that way.
one of these days I'll find how to make my gv sway bar disconnectable and I'll put pics and instruction on zukiworld in case anyone wants to do the same. actually going to look at it today I think just to get some ideas.
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This guy claims to have some quick disconnect endlinks that could be adapted to any length desired. Not sure if they would work on a suzuki, but it's something to look into.
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/SwayBar.shtml
look at version 2.0 near the bottom of the page
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That's the crappy thing about life and chances - where something could save your life it could harm you just the same. Take seatbelts for example, yes, i know, they save lives, and for the most part they do, but you do hear of cases where not wearing one has made the difference of someone being alive, because that person was thrown from the vehicle rather than the 18 wheeler flattening the vehicle with them buckled in it.....
Driving is a scary thing no matter what you drive, or what you do to your vehicle, you could be the best of drivers, or drive the safest vehicle, there are still other people on the roads talking on their cell phone, reading, doing make-up, finishing up their 4th beer, etc.
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thanks for the link of disconnects. definately gives me some ideas. I agree with uncivilized. got to watch out. life is fragile and you never know what can save you or not. agree about the seatbelt thing too and I think the seatbelt laws just give the cops something to do. if someone doesn't want to wear a seatbelt, that's thier choice in my opinion. I choose to wear one myself
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Yes actually I have. Never had a problem with it. Hit a deer with my Ranger the other day and it's missing BOTH of it's swaybars. No problem aside from me learning my ABS doesn't seem to work anymore.
If you're to the point where the vehicle is going to roll a swaybar isn't going to stop you. My point is that they simply aren't effective enough. If I was talking about a uber flex monster on 220lb rate springs than sure, you'd need it, but for our stiff sprung IFS buggies, it's decoration to help Suzuki defend itself incase BillyBob tries to make a 90 degree turn at 90mph and dies in the ensuing roll over.
I oughta go find the video of a stunt driver rolling a bone stock XJ Cherokee in a flat parking lot. Lotsa speed, lotsa stupidity, and lotsa swerving and jerking. The swaybar(s) didn't seem to help him much. It's on Streetfire somewhere...
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my .02 worth,
if your rig is a daily driver leave the swaybar on, and if it's mostly used for off road, then take them off. when i first lifted mine i left the swaybar off, and drove it for like six months with it off. i noticed a difference from stock, even with a new calmini 3" lift. i leaned more into turns, and it felt too soft up front when entering on/off ramps on the freeway. then i put it back on again to see if it would help, and difference was amazing it felt far more stable on road.
also when you think about it, it doesn't give you that much more flex at least not enough to leave it off when your rig is mostly a daily driver. if you really want flex up front "sas" is the only solution.
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i leaned more into turns, and it felt too soft up front when entering on/off ramps on the freeway. then i put it back on again to see if it would help, and difference was amazing it felt far more stable on road.
Exactly. If it leans more, it will tip easier. Don't get me wrong.. I am not saying it is dangerous, not if you know what you are driving. BUT, my point is.. and everyone seems to agree, and the facts are. Sway bars keep you flatter.. period. You just can't say they don't, even on our stiff sprung vehicles. They attach directly to the control arms, and make them work in relation to each other, AND the frame where they are attached. THEY HAVE TO hold you flatter under lateral acceleration. The basic physics is such that if they DIDN'T help, then taking them off wouldn't give you ANY better flex. The truth is, it DOES, THEY DO, and your wrong. Sorry. I am NOT saying YOU or anyone else has a control problem with not having a sway bar, I am saying a sway bar DOES keep you flatter, and flatter is better in a cornering or even a crisis avoidance situation. (or on a side hill for that matter, but I will withold my thinking on that... too radical...lol)
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see what you started milk :-\
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The swaybar is a big spring, to be precise its a torsion spring. In a straight line it has no effect and if both wheels hit the same bump then only the main springs react. Under cornering the springs work against each other, one compresses and the other extends. The torsion bar twists and this adds a great deal of extra springing to the suspension. Manufacturers fit them to give good cornering ability with a softer ride. The main springs would have to be very hard indeed to negate the effect of the swaybar which would reduce your flex again and put you pretty much back where you started.
Removing the swaybar will make it less stable in corners. I don't believe it is any more dangerous IF you modify your driving style to compensate. A 57 Chevy is less stable through corners than a new Ferrari but that doesn't make it dangerous.
There is one issue that no one has mentioned so far. How would your insurance company react if you were involved in an accident?
Disconnects are the way to go IMHO but it needs to be done in a way that doesn't effect the normal operation of the bar.
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1) Anti-Swaybars keep our trucks running "flatter" and more stable in corners. People who race frequently put on BIG bars 'cause they're very affective at reducing body-roll.
2) Anyone found someone that will do quick disconnects yet? If not - can I just unbolt the bar when I go wheeling, and bolt it back on when I'm done?
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I just took off my sway bar because i stipped out the threads that you thread the bolts into on the frame and it does allot better with the new shocks adn struts that I used with my lift than it did stock with crappy shocks and struts. I just wish my ome struts were stiffer so it would do even better.
taking it off and putting it back on will likely make you end up stripping it out like I did. I don't know about 1st gens but you can forget about making disconnects on a 2nd gen because the bar will not swing back far enough. I have thought of a quick disconnect idea but I'm not sure if it would be strong enough, I'll draw it out and post it.. it's not conventional at all...
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hey guys.... i dont THINK anyone had mentioned this, and im thinking your all talkin about vits/track jobbies....
i have a sami.... would it make any difference if i removed my sway bar? being solid axle an all.... or does it only really make a difference on IFS
im running 4" lift on stock springs, stock shocks on 31's....
Andy.... and the speed limit in my island is 35mph.... dont always stick to it... but meh... not really a place for speeding...
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i have a sami.... would it make any difference if i removed my sway bar? being solid axle an all.... or does it only really make a difference on IFS
im running 4" lift on stock springs, stock shocks on 31's....
Andy.... and the speed limit in my island is 35mph.... dont always stick to it... but meh... not really a place for speeding...
Overall the effect will be the same on a Sammy, more articulation, less stability. Most people find that the Sammy is affected less by the removal of the sway bar as the springs are much stiffer (relatively) than a Track/Kick.
35mph, that sucks!
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oh cool... think i'll try it anyway... just had a go at the bolts... and there all rusted through... so think ill just make it a permenant job and angle grind the lot off :D
yeah... its sucks major ass.... its kinda hard to stick too... ive been taken off the roads, 2 month ban... which sucks... but, it gave me the time to lift my ZUKI!! and i got the time to sand it all down respray her now... and im thinking about removable doors... undecided yet... but thats not for this topic... anyways, cheers for the advice... time to start grindin!!!
Andy
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My two cents....ditch it! I use mine for a fire poker in the bon-fire pit now!! lol
I drive a ton on road and don't notice the difference.
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Removing the bar in ANY vehicle will allow for more artriculation. You'll notice beter flex - not as extreme as IFS, but you'll notice it on the trail for sure.
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I've lifted my vitara/kick with those spring spacers, so only a wee bit so far. I drove with the swaybar undone (by accident) after i fitted them, and noticed a big difference in 'wobble' and flex up front. I can see the advantages offroad, and once i lift mine further i shall definatley be loosing it. However i dont think anyone else has asked....
Having just gone through my first cv joints, wouldnt the extra articulation/droop that the missing sway bar gives, put more stress on your cvs?? Just a thought...
Andy
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could possibly put more stress on the CV's but that's life. justmake sure your struts don't droop much more than stock and it should be okay.
I did notice a difference with and without a sway bar both with stock suspension with crappy shocks and struts and brand new shocks and struts. makes a noticable difference both ways but corners surprisingly well with new shock absorbers
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Having just gone through my first cv joints, wouldnt the extra articulation/droop that the missing sway bar gives, put more stress on your cvs?? Just a thought...
Andy
It will do, just take it easy with the loud pedal when you have the steering turned.
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I think I have the answer to this 4 page question... remove it.. drive extremely careful and see how it does while respecting the fact that it may drasticly change the handling (which it did the first time I did) and see what you want out of the vehicle
it's all about respecting the vehicle and not thinking you are a freaking formula 1 racer
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it's all about respecting the vehicle and not thinking you are a freaking formula 1 racer
Bingo.
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well, I just went though the whole Melt weekend with my sway bar on.. I certainly don't see any advantage to removing it at all.. I like the stability that it provides to tell you the truth..
I can drop over a high, off camber hill, at an angle, touch down a front tire without too much flex and the whole truck doesn't ROLL towards the tire that touched down..
Screw flexy, I will take stable any day.
By the way, I went MORE places than the flexy sammys, and EVERYWHERE everyone else did. EVERYWHERE.. generally more stable and just as easily..
Someone explain to me exactly when flex is good? (rhetorical question, don't answer...lol)
I know the theory is to keep the driving wheels in traction.. but these rigs are so light that if you are locked, you don't really need all four down... two is plenty ;)
I probably won't be removing my sway bar ever again, I don't care for the body roll over an off camber, when the front suspension is loaded... it makes it feel way too tippy for the kind of trails I run. And besides, if something works as well as my rig does.... why mess with it..
LOL... just thought I would toss this in. When a rig with the sway bars removed actually doesn something better than mine, I might consider it..but it hasn't happened yet.. and I ran with some VERY flexy machines this weekend.. I wasn't impressed... but THEY were... More than once I had people come up to me after a trail obstacle and start asking all sorts of suspension questions, as to what I had done.. lol... 2" BDS... and trimming.. that's all... LOL..
FLEX is overrated... that's for sure.
Is it about posing? or actual use? Cause I would be happy to show up at a trail ride and demonstrate the prowess of a non-flexy vehicle.
To me, it is all about where you can go, and how easily.
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I think I have the answer to this 4 page question... remove it.. drive extremely careful and see how it does while respecting the fact that it may drasticly change the handling (which it did the first time I did) and see what you want out of the vehicle
it's all about respecting the vehicle and not thinking you are a freaking formula 1 racer
I can only agree with that that. Something else that no one has mentioned, and I forgot about this, on my vehicle the swaybar fouled the steering linkage at full droop with the strut extensions fitted. I didn't like the idea of that and, like I said before, a bit bit offset on the wheels and you don't notice the difference.
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erm... just wonderin... someone has probably mentioned this already.... but does the amount of flex u need not depend completely on what the terrain is...????? quaddawg... i noticed in your picture that you are driving through mud... i know assumptions are the mother of all "hick ups" but i assume... that u dont really go rock crawling do you? because i would say you need lots of flex/articulation for this.... whereas using something with stupid amounts of flex/articulation in somewhere thats relatively mild terrain... just rather slippy is completely different.... just a thought....
anyways... its very late over here... and i'll bet none of that made any sense.... and its probably all repeated from someone else.... but meh... i dont care :P
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No, no... I don't do a lot of mud at all.. I mostly trail ride, on difficult trails, and hills..
BUT, I crawled quite a bit this weekend, at the Zookimelt. and did pretty darned well for my ground clearance
And yes, you are right. Rock Crawling needs the most flex.. BUT Mike Hagen won the Rock Rage at the Melt again this year, and his Rock Star won't flex too awful well at all, but it will climb to the top of the RTI ramp without rolling over....
AND many of the guys asking these questions never ever see the rocks, mostly street, and some trail.
You are right, but I still contend flex isn't as important as many of these kids are thinking
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I won't argue with the flex overrated with lockers but without I don't think it is at all. sounds like some don't get much extra flex at all without the bar but with my setup I get quite a bit extra. I don't off road much I'll admit but going to allot when I have another vehicle to daily drive