ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: zukzilla1662 on June 27, 2006, 08:21:45 PM
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whats better? all i know is axel gears are way cheaper
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What were the prices you found on axle gears??
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the axel gears are 200 at rocky road!!! are axel gears any good tho the ones i found were 5:38
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ya but you still have to get axle gears installed which typically means a diff rebuild at the same time as the pinion bearings and crush sleeves should be replaced.
tcase gears can be done by you on your bench at home.
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i think it comes with all the things you just said
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A second advantage to the transfer case gears is you get the large drop in low range as well as the modified percentage in high, where with axel gears you only get the percentage drop.
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would it still make me faster on the highway cause i have to drive everyday?
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An advantage of dif gears is the fact that the gearing is lowered near the output of the power transmission system. This reduces the stress on drivetrain components "upstream" from the differentials (ie yokes, t-case, transmission..)
You can do dif gears pretty cheap if you are willing to shop around (junkyards, eBay, etc.) and DIY the installation.
Then again, you can buy a used tcase pretty cheap, get a reasonably-priced gearset/rebuild kit and DIY it. FWIW, I am discovering that the Differential Change project I am in the middle of is probably a lot harder in terms of the learning curve than a t-case regear... >:(
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Would t-case gears be a better option than 5.83's? What is the modified percentage in the high range? What is the price of t-case gears?
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T-Case gears are available in a couple of flavors.
4.16:1 gears - 12% in high range, for 31" tires
5.8:1 gears - 18.2% in high range, for 32" tires
6:1 gears - 24% in high range, for 33" tires
The 6.5 and 8:1 kits both claim to have the same high range as the 6:1
I think there is a 4.89 kit out there as well, no idea about the high range on it.
As Ack said, you reduce the amount of torque on the rest of the system by lowering your gears. Once you put the bulletproof transfer case mounts in, most people seem to break CV shafts and axels before driveshafts and u-joints, so I prefer the transfer case kits. Plus they are a lot easier to install then new diffs.
Then again, I'm also running 5.12 tracker gears behind my 6.5 kit. But I just bought the pumpkins with the gears already in them.
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Brent at Trail Tough said it best:
http://php.trailtough.com/viewtopic.php?t=3
While doing transfer case gears is probably the biggest bang for the buck and a quick-fix, it is definitely a lousy way to try and create a reliable, trouble-free drivetrain. So think about this for a minute...you put on larger tires, so your pinion now becomes TWICE as hard to turn putting TWICE as much stress on the u-joints, transfer case mounts and the transfer case itself, as well as the brackets on the side of the frame that holds the transfer case in place. It leads to problem chasing such as having to use unnecessary large and heavy driveshafts, having the bolts pull out of the transfer case on the long arm side, having the mounting boss break off of the transfer case or having the short arm side bracket start to tear off of the frame rail. It is because you have given your transfer case up to 3 times as much power by putting in lower gears and now the transfer case wants to do flip-flops in its mount. Many people consider only the POWER issue of this equation as opposed to considering the STRESS LOADING situation as well. You need to change the ring and pinion gears also - relative to your tire size - which will make the driveshaft easy to turn again, taking all of the strain off of these parts - just like it was made from the factory when the smaller tires were on it. It is a mistake to do all of your gear reduction at one point. Especially that far up the mechanical chain. Do yourself a favor....reduce the ratio at the ring and pinions relative to the size tire you want to run, then select the transfer case gears that will best meet your 4-wheeling needs. By going this route, you will have a well thought out and trouble-free drivetrain, working well within the parameters of strain that the parts can and will reliably handle.
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I agree if your planning on driving this alot on road like I do. then your going to want axle gears. With my 4.62's and 31x10.5s I get a 20% reduction in high, and low.. and it brings the driving with 31's back to stock level, and less stress on the drivetrain. Of course if u do more offroad then your could go T-case for the lower reduction in low.
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i think it comes with all the things you just said
From RRO's website; the ring/pinion gears are $200. Install kit is $100 (you have to use 1 install kit per axle). This makes your price $300 per axle. This means the total cost is $600 in parts, plus gear lube.ÂÂ
I've done lots of ring/pinion changes, and 2 t-case gear changes. My opinion is that the t-case gear swap can be completed by a good do-it-yourselfer with normal hand tools in a few hours. The ring/pinion requires some special skills and tools (dial indicator, hydraulic press, in-lb torque wrench, slide hammer) to do correctly; and takes significantly more time.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both (listed earlier in this thread), but if you're looking for best bang-for-the-buck, go with some 4.16:1 gears for the tcase. It's the cheapest and easiest way to get a great reduction in low range, and a little reduction in high range.
Trail tough has a great price on the 4.16 t-case gears with an install kit; if you decide to go with ring/pinion check lowrangeoffroad on Ebay. They beat all of the other gear vendors I have found, including all of the zuk vendors and Randy's.ÂÂ
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I am running a 4.16 t-case w/ stock axles and it runs awesome. True I am still running just 215's but, it I haven't found a place around here that I can't take it and the freeway is a cakewalk. Accelerating in fifth gear going uphill is a breeze.
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i learned a easy lesson. t-case gears + stock r/p + heavy foot +lots of mud + 31" tires= explode
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1) Diff gears drop your RPM's the same % in high and low range. Transfer case gears have 1 gearset for "high range" and another set for "4 wheel low". Why is this nice? Because you can "correct" for larger tires by reducing the high range by 18% or so (depending on your tire size and needs), but you can reduce the low range by 100% or more - which is REALLY nice!!!!
2) I kinda disagree with trail tough's perspective on things. I DO agree with him when we're talking about REALLY BIG tires (32"+). I totally disagree with him when it comes to smaller tires - stock sammi stuff can handle a little added stress. I have not seen a lot of driveline failures with more conservative sized tires.
3) It's $200 for ring and pinion gears, but it's $200 PER SIDE (need one set for front, and one set for rear). You'll need 2 rebuild kits while you're in your diffs, and 2 bottles of gear oil. You'll only need 1 rebuild kit for the transfer case.
4) It's much easier to swap gears in a transfer case than in a diff.
So.... it really depends on what you're doing. But - if I made a short recommendation... 31" tires and smaller - do transfer case gears. 32"+ tires - do diffs.
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That chart is a little misleading. By the way, the reduction (eg 4.9:1) is the high gear reduction only. To figure out the low range reduction, you need to bust out a little algebra:
Hi gear - where x is the percentage reduction x*1.409/100+1.409="Gearing"
Low gear - where x is the percentage reduction x*2.268/100+2.268="Gearing"
I'm doing the calculations now, and will be correcting that chart (which, by the way I got from here: http://www.zuwharrie.com/content/view/15/27/1/1/)
Stay tuned for a "corrected" chart that will be easier to use the gearing calculator with.
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Okay - here's some numbers you can plug right into the gearing calculator (use the red numbers). I'm not really shure how they derive at their 8:1 or 4.9:1 numbers... "final drive" in one of the gears or something?
RRO
8:1 Hi Reduction 24% 1.412
8:1 Lo Reduction 260% 2.327
6:1 Hi Reduction 24% 1.412
6:1 Lo Reduction 170% 2.307
4.16:1 Hi Reduction 12% 1.411
4.16:1 Lo Reduction 83% 2.287
Calmini
6.5:1 Hi Reduction 20% 1.412
6.5:1 Lo Reduction 187% 2.31
5.14:1 Hi Reduction 18.30% 1.412
5.14:1 Lo Reduction 127% 2.297
4.16:1 Hi Reduction 12.20% 1.411
4.16:1 Lo Reduction 83.60% 2.287
Roadless Gear
6.129:1 Hi Reduction 21% 1.412
6.129:1 Lo Reduction 170% 2.307
4.16:1 Hi Reduction 12% 1.411
4.16:1 Lo Reduction 84% 2.287
Petroworks
4.89:1 Hi Reduction 18% 1.412
4.89:1 Lo Reduction 115% 2.294
Trail Tough
6.4:1 Hi Reduction 17% 1.411
6.4:1 Lo Reduction 181% 2.309
4.9:1 Hi Reduction 16% 1.411
4.9:1 Lo Reduction 115% 2.294
4.16:1 Hi Reduction 12% 1.411
4.16:1 Lo Reduction 84% 2.287
AAPA
6.4:1 Hi Reduction 21% 1.412
6.4:1 Lo Reduction 181% 2.309
4.9:1 Hi Reduction 18% 1.412
4.9:1 Lo Reduction 118% 2.295
4.1:1 Hi Reduction 12% 1.411
4.1:1 Lo Reduction 84% 2.287
DG Tuning (Netherlands)
8:1 Hi Reduction 24% 1.412
8:1 Lo Reduction 260% 2.327
6:1 Hi Reduction 24% 1.412
6:1 Lo Reduction 170% 2.307
4.16:1 Hi Reduction 12% 1.411
4.16:1 Lo Reduction 83% 2.287
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i learned a easy lesson. t-case gears + stock r/p + heavy foot +lots of mud + 31" tires= explode
Ok, but what exploded? Was it your driveshafts or U-joints, or did you just blow up your CV shafts and/or axels?
Jeremiah - The 8:1 and 4.9:1 is the gearing of the low range. I couldn't find that chart earlier, so I just drug up the high range drop (which is what you would use for calculating the tires size changes for highway driving) from an article. You get your final drive ratio by calculating your 1st gear, transfer case, and diffs.
3.136 (Transmission) * 6.5 (Transfer Case) * 5.12 (Diff) = 104:1 in low range modified compared to
3.136 (Transmission) * 2.511 (Transfer Case) * 4.10 (Diff) = 32:1 stock for my SJ-410.
You can look up the transmission stats here (http://www.4x4.in.th/specification.html").
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Sweet - thanks for the heads up!
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Would t-case gears be a better option than 5.83's? What is the modified percentage in the high range? What is the price of t-case gears?
I wouldnt say better but alot easier for someone that can turn a wrench but doesnt know how to set lash or use a caliper!
im running 5:83 gears and a 4.16:1 t-case with 35" tires and can run about 60mph!
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for driving on the road what is better? and whats better for offroad?
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for driving on the road what is better? and whats better for offroad?
if you are lookin for a happy medium id go with a 4-1 t-case and do a track/kick 3rd member swap! 513 gears in the axles will get you low enough with the 4-1 and still be very streetable! ;D
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for driving on the road what is better? and whats better for offroad?
Depends on tire size. Anything below 31" t-case gears are best. Anything over 31" you should be using diff gears (and can mix/match diff gears and t-case). Offroading - t-case gears WAY better 'cause it's the only way to reduce the low range below what it is stock.