ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: S.Sidekick on August 22, 2010, 10:54:59 PM
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Hey so i got my front end done and know nothing about shackle angles, i have not moved the truck so they will probably settle a little, but these are used stock springs. let me know what you think. thanks
Jon K.
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Anyone????
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No good... You want to move your mount towards the back of the vehicle to get the shackle to lean back like \ ... also, I'd consider putting some gusseting from your new frame extension and the original frame, some fish plates on the sides would be a good idea too.
-Eric
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The samurai will ride like crap with a shackle angle like that. I have always heard 35 degrees is a good angle to shoot for, for shackle angles.
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There are gussets on the frame extension... and why 35 degrees?? i thought when you flex a spring it pulls the shackle toward the flex, how would a 35 dgree angle make the ride better. And lol its not a Samurai, lol
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Whatever it is, it will still ride like crap with a 90 degree shackle angle. :P
35 degrees is what "they" say to set it at. So I am just passing on the info. Set it wherever you want.
Springs get "longer" when they flex (assuming there is some positive arch to the springs at ride height)....so they will "push" the bottom of the shackle out and it will flatten out some. So assuming that is a front spring in your pic, you want the bottom of the shackle farther forward than the top of the shackle, at ride height.
If you google "shackle" or "shackle angle", you can read for days about shackles, how they work, how shackle angle affect spring rate, shackle angle, etc.
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As per Page 7 of Spring Tech 101, http://www.eatonsprings.com/springtech101.pdf (http://www.eatonsprings.com/springtech101.pdf)
"Shackle angle. As a spring flexes, it grows in length.The purpose of a shackle is to
allow for this growth. Although spring rates are fixed by its makeup, the amount of force
required to move a spring can be greatly increased by incorrect shackle angle. Any shackle
angle exceeding 15 degrees is too great."
Wayne
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well, i am taking some advice. I called brent at trailtough, and he told me to have it at 90, but i will cut the welds and move it back a little. find a happy medium lol
jon
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well, i am taking some advice. I called brent at trailtough, and he told me to have it at 90, but i will cut the welds and move it back a little. find a happy medium lol
jon
90 would be what you have it at now...if he is talking about 90 in relation to horizontal. If he is talking 90 compared to the spring, then that would be pretty much the same too, since the springs look like they set pretty much flat. Piss poor advice, IMO.
I am pretty sure the 35 spec that I have seen is measured from vertical (meaning the shackles need to stand up 10 degrees straighter than 45 degrees).
I have no idea how eaton spring measures shackle angles....15 degrees, or less, from vertical would be a pretty rough ride, IMO. If they would be measuring 15 off the plane of the leafs, then that makes more sense, as long as the leafs have some angle to them, and aren't setting flat.
But my rear shackle angle is no where within any of the aforementioned specs, so what do I know.....it works great for me though. ;D
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I guess Eaton would not have any idea what the are talking about when it comes to springs. ::)
Wayne
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I guess Eaton would not have any idea what the are talking about when it comes to springs. ::)
Wayne
Well, I would like to know how they are measuring the 15 degrees. Evidently you don't know, since all you are doing is copying what you read on their site. ::)
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I guess Eaton would not have any idea what the are talking about when it comes to springs. ::)
Wayne
Well, I would like to know how they are measuring the 15 degrees. Evidently you don't know, since all you are doing is copying what you read on their site. ::)
I think I do know. I copied what was on their site simply as a courtesy for fellow members, and also added a link so others could read it for them selves. There could be nothing lost in translation.
Wayne
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Whatever it is, it will still ride like crap with a 90 degree shackle angle. :P
35 degrees is what "they" say to set it at. So I am just passing on the info.
Who are "they"?
Wayne
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I guess Eaton would not have any idea what the are talking about when it comes to springs. ::)
Wayne
Well, I would like to know how they are measuring the 15 degrees. Evidently you don't know, since all you are doing is copying what you read on their site. ::)
I think I do know. I copied what was on their site simply as a courtesy for fellow members, and also added a link so others could read it for them selves. There could be nothing lost in translation.
Wayne
So on what plane are they measuring the 15 degrees from then?
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Whatever it is, it will still ride like crap with a 90 degree shackle angle. :P
35 degrees is what "they" say to set it at. So I am just passing on the info.
Who are "they"?
Wayne
It doesn't matter, you and eaton have it all figured out.
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OK you two
(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/sperry21/machinegun-1.gif) (http://www.openscrolls.net/forum/images/smiles/icon_machinegun.gif)
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Whatever it is, it will still ride like crap with a 90 degree shackle angle. :P
35 degrees is what "they" say to set it at. So I am just passing on the info.
Who are "they"?
Wayne
It doesn't matter, you and eaton have it all figured out.
I think it does matter. We could ask "them", if we knew who "they" were. It might offer some creditability as to the info you are just passing.
I made a post in response to the OP. I copied and pasted text from a source that manufactures springs, and included a link to provide additional information, if wanted. The link even explained who Eaton is. I did not use an abstract "they". And for that I am being attacked? And then you ask me to explain?
Wayne
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haha dang this post is touchy lol. No worries though, thanks for all the help, ill get pics up today, but i wont be able to cut and weld them until next weekend.
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Hopefully, there was some help in there someplace.
I think the angle of the shackle angle is more critical in the front axle, assuming the back of the spring is the fixed end. Consider, if you hit a rock while going forward, the spring moves back and up. If the shackle is straight down (90 degrees from horizontal), the shackle has the potential to go past center of its pivot point. This in turn might allow the shackle to flip up on the rebound, behind the pivot point, instead of going forward or back to straight down.
I have seen many two axle trailers with the shackles flipped the wrong way because they were straight down. I do not recall seeing any flip that were 15-degrees (from straight down), or more, toward the direction the spring would travel. As I understand, when the arc of the spring is flat, that will be the greatest angle of the shackle. If you have too much angle on the shackle, and you flex the spring, you will not get full travel.
I think the above would apply to a shackle mounted in the rear of a rear axle as well, but may not be as critical.
Clear as mud?
Wayne
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ya, my rear looks like this.
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Just take it out the way it is and wheel it, well for the two or three minutes it lasts.
The problem I (yes I have done it) :-[ had with shackles at that angle was on full droop the springs will roll up to the inside of the mount and bend the spring. I would safely trailer it to a wheeling spot and keep it off the hwy. As for your candor, people on zukiworld are trying to help and offer the best knowledge available , tough guy behind a monitor stuff should be saved for pirate4x4.:P
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umm... are you talking about my front shackle angle or the new pic i just posted about how i did my rear? lol, that would totally suck if i did both angles wrong.
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The rear looks OK IMO
I would move the front mounts back a little bit. Or could always get a little bit longer spring. Or option 3 shackle reversal?? Are you using Toyota springs or????
And my other comments were to reddog1
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ya they are toyota springs. (stock). I heard a shackle reversal is bad for wheeling. Trailtough and Lowrange said this. I heard that is great for on road driving, but limits your off road capabilities. But who knows??? It was easier though to do this build with the shackles in front not a reversal.
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Huh., always have heard the opposite anyways try Toyota rear springs up front. There a bit longer and flex better.might fix your issue without cutting and welding
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I know how to solve this debate/problem, .......... Coils
More flex, better ride, no axle wrap or broken spring ends
There, done
Wild
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Ok wild, gunna order my trail slayer kit right now and I'm telling my wife you told me too! :P :laugh:
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If that gets you off the hook, fine by me, I can't hear her
scream from here ;D
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Haha, ya that would be nice to have coils. But its even nicer to say i made that. lol, not i bought that and installed it. lol
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Well then a set of 185 Lb springs, a bit of DOM and
some hiems and you too could have a coil Samurai
Wild
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Well then a set of 185 Lb springs, a bit of DOM and
some hiems and you too could have a coil Samurai
Wild
pay attention Wild.... IT IS A sidekick!!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Well that's the problem, Track/Kicks reject leafs, it's a step backwards
to the evolution of the breed ;)
I saw the first post and saw leafs, and several posts after that refered
to a Samurai so I thought we were talking about a RUF or some other
Sammy mod
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I did Yj springs and toyota axles on my tin top Sidekick. I had the shackles in the back and it drve fine but to soft. When I do it again on another one I will not do springs again I'll buy Trail toughs set up!
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haha there is no doubt that trailtough's kit is on my wish list, but i am getting married this summer and can't afford it, lol.