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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: Perryd on January 06, 2017, 05:12:01 PM
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I recently picked up a 1998 2 door, and while the 1.6 is a good little motor I wouldn't mind having a little more under my foot. I daily drive an 06 Suzuki Aerio, and I just scrapped an 05 that I got for free. I'm holding onto the motor because maybe someday that 2.3 could find it's way into this tracker, if not it's just a spare for my DD.
If anyone knows anything about this swap, could you confirm what I would need to harvest from my parts car?
So far I took:
- the engine
- engine wiring harness
- computer
I also have a spare 2.0 from a tracker that I'm pretty sure I'll need.
Is there any other wiring I need to take? There is still tons of body wiring left in the aerio, but I was hoping I could leave most of it as it's a major pain to get out. But I will go back and take more if need be.
I'm not sure if I'll ever do it, but from 95hp to 155hp just might be worth it.
I attached some are some pics of what I took out, hope to hear from someone else who did it, maybe some links to build threads? I've seen build threads from doing it to a sport but not a regular track/kick.
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There were a couple of vendors who offered kits to drop the J20a into the Sidekicks, so I would say the 2.3 (J23a) into the Sidekick is probably not too difficult, although that might depend on where you're starting from.
Was the donor Aerio manual transmission or automatic? Is the recipient Sidekick manual or automatic? If either one is automatic, your first challenge will be matching the transmission controller electronics to the transmissions, if both are manual, the task will be significantly less complicated.
You're going to need to hunt down a lot of small bits - oil pan & manifolds from a 2.0 Tracker or Vitara, cooling system plumbing, and that sort of thing.
Google Suzuki 2.0 into 1.6 swap or variations on that theme you should get some hits.
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Both are automatic, but I don't think the 3spd auto in the 98' tracker is electronically controlled is it? I was pointed to this link https://www.trailtough.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=71:donor-parts-list-20-engine-conversion&catid=36:techinfo&Itemid=60 (https://www.trailtough.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=71:donor-parts-list-20-engine-conversion&catid=36:techinfo&Itemid=60) , which takes a lot of the guessing out of what I need to take.
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The 3 speed automatics weren't electronic, but, the Aerio transmission is - you're going to need the Aerio ECU to control the 2.3 and that will give you a bunch of errors when it doesn't see the signals from the Aerio transmission that it is expecting.
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Yeah that's what I'm afriad of, I don't care about CEL codes but I still need it to run well. Hopefully I can use a manual aerio ECM with my automatic harness if that's not the case.
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Yeah that's what I'm afriad of, I don't care about CEL codes but I still need it to run well. Hopefully I can use a manual aerio ECM with my automatic harness if that's not the case.
You should & will care about those CEL codes. Having a standing CEL (from a communication error between TCM and ECM) means no warning when other alarms come in. When it starts running crappy in the middle of vacation and your tools are home in shop it is SOL time.
The increased power of the Aerio does make it a good swap. We ran one in Project Trouble race car, and 75 mph on gravel roads with 30" tires in 4wd was no problem.
The TT wiring does not wire in the OBDII plug (there are only 4 wires) , this is NEEDED. (We used their redrilled flywheel and didn't need an adapter to bolt it up to 93 transmission. ) The 2.3L does run hotter and you want their radiator and fan setup.
If you get the manual wiring, Volvo uses a non electronic version of the 4 speed auto, that can be used/converted.
I would try using a GV auto transmission behind your Aerio auto wiring. There is a red wire and white wire that are used for communication between TCM and ECM on both models. They may use the same communication format. or not. I have not heard of anyone trying. It is not going to be plug and play.
I can say integrating wiring is VERY time consuming, and it also takes more time than one thinks (and that is a long time). If that sounds redundant read it twice, it takes that much time.
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I sent an e-mail to trail tough today, they were quick to get back to me to straighten a few things up. Your post has also been very helpful, thank you. Do you have any write ups/threads focused around the development of "Project Trouble" I feel like I could learn a lot from it.
So TT said it will have a CEL, and I'm ok with a CEL. I've daily'd cars with evap codes and such for years. What I didn't know is there is no OBD port at all? That's a different story. I'm ok with a CEL that's on for eternity but as you mentioned I'd be wary to operate such a modern powertrain without even a port. I use a scangauge II (basically an OBD II trip computer) that will show new as they come up.
I've been thinking about the transmission too, as I have a 4spd from a 99' sitting behind my garage. My image of it went in my head sort of like this: (I literally thought this up in bed so it might make no sense)
I know that putting a 2.3 in a track/kick/vit that came with a J-series is pretty well plug and play... (ex. sidekick sport 2.3 swap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv67n53cUs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv67n53cUs))
So what if I were to use the harness/computer from a 99+ in order to run the 2.3 with the before mentioned 4spd I already have? Perhaps this would be easier than trying to get the 4spd auto to communicate with aerio wiring? Also this was I could retain the OBD II port as I would run the entirety of the 99+ wiring/ECM.
I'm just thinking out loud here, so feel free to let me know if I'm out to lunch. I'm just doing my part to continuously develop the much needed dialogue regarding what I believe to be the ultimate genuine suzuki swap.
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I just completed this swap this summer. It nice extra power, lots of fun to drive. But it does come with some interesting problems.
For the swap and some finished fitment photos, see my thread in the build diary section, 1.6 to 2.3 in 95 Sidekick.
The auto causes the biggest issues. I used the auto from my 2000 tracker donor. The switches for the power mode and overdrive are missing in the 95 shifter, the 2000 assembly didn't fit in. So opted to keep the power mode on permanently, recommend this, and added a micro switch for the AOD. The setup works great and its fun having power mode engaged all the time, adds to the peppy, fly by the seat, fun to drive feel. I am still running stock gears, tires and suspension so its really noticeable. Will eventually switch to 5.12 gears and 32" tires, looking for a rally type setup.
You will need a donor 1.8l or 2.0l engine for oil pan and other rear drive accessories. Mine is a 2.3l block and head, used rest of parts, intake, exhaust, fuel rail, injectors, harness and computer from 2000 tracker donor. It's easier then getting the 2.3l computer to mate to and accept the auto tranny. I didn't dyno it but the butt feel while driving tells me it's peppier than my 2002 2dr Tracker. You will also need the dash harness, which was modified by Trail Tough to make it work best.
Now since doing it one way, and thinking i may do it again in a tin top, I have a few different ideas to do it.
Now since you have a newer version than I, it may be a little different, smarter folks than I can chime in.
To me, having only looked and not done the measurements to confirm yet. I would get a donor 96 - 98 sidekick sport with a 1.8l and manual, but auto may work. Since the interior and dash to the 96 - 98 sidekick and sidekick sport looks the same, and under hood dimension are similar (to be confirmed). I was thinking swap engine, harness, dash, harness and tranny from the sport to non sport model, this gives you a fully functional 1.8l and complete harnesses in place of the 1.6l. Once this is in and running, swap out the 1.8l for the 2.3l like the article for the swap in the sport model. This seems like an easier route than my first swap. Again this is just my plan in my head at this time and haven't finished the research into the swaps, other than learning from my errors and problems from my swap.
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Jstr, Thanks for you input. I had a feeling that would work well, but now I'm wishing I kept the wiring harness from the 99 I parted out. Shouldn't be a problem to get another if it comes to that. I look forward to reading your thread. One question though, were you able to retain the OBD-II port from the 2000 wiring?
As for using the 4spd auto from the 99 as BRD HUNTER mentioned, I'm going to give that a shot. I have almost the whole wiring harness from the headlight to the fuel tank removed, and I mean ever last wire. My plan is to getting it running on a stand and see if I can get the aerio ECU to communicate with the 99 4spd. The plug and wiring look very similar, so I'm hopeful that I can get something to work, and if I can't maybe you guys would be able to offer some advice.
Stay tuned for updates
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If you are using the 99+ wiring & computer, it would have no problem with the 99+ 4 spd auto & computer. You may incur a slight loss in power do to differences. The main differences that I noticed between Aerio 2.3 and Tracker 2.0 was exhaust manifold (which needs to be switched to run stock motor mounts), and Intake. Both of these can influence hp dramatically, without testing it is unknowable what the losses are. I do not know if the Tracker wiring will plug directly into Aerio motor.
Project Trouble is in the Build Threads. We started building the Desert Racer for ZW series, and I found a T-boned Aerio that I could part out for more than it cost and have this motor. So we threw in in as fast as possible and went to the races. We ran in 4WD because it was much more stable at higher speeds, and helped on some of the steep climbs. At 75 mph there was still more throttle left, but that was fast enough on a gravel road I hadn't driven before (and didn't know where next turn off was). Side note: we did not finish any of the big races, but had enough fun to stay with it until our class disolved from lack of participants.
One of the problems with the TT harness is a tachometer reading, they have to modify your tachometer to get it to work??? I am not sure what wire I used (now), but we didn't have any issues with tach. possibly I just used #1 coil signal wire.
This may be of interest to you. http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/technical-discussion-performance-modify/2-3-aerio-to-tracker-conversion/ (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/technical-discussion-performance-modify/2-3-aerio-to-tracker-conversion/), not sure if Herman is still very active.
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Thanks for the suggested reading, lots of great ideas floating around. 2.0 wiring with 2.3 guts is looking more and more like the better option. Dang, I really wish I kept the wiring from the 99 I scrapped :(
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This may be of interest to you. [url]http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/technical-discussion-performance-modify/2-3-aerio-to-tracker-conversion/[/url] ([url]http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/technical-discussion-performance-modify/2-3-aerio-to-tracker-conversion/[/url]), not sure if Herman is still very active.
This was very insightful, he mentions that he needed to "hook up a scan tool to verify the RPM and remove the tach needle from it's post and re position the needle to calibrate." He also used to the trail tough wiring. I believe you mentioned earlier that they never wired in a plug? I'll have to email trail tough and see what's up with that. He said it would have a standing CEL but didn't say much about a port.
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Search and read all the 2.3L swap threads. We all did it a bit differently and all have slightly similar results.
I sent both the dash harness and speedo to TT. They did whatever and sent it back. Works great no CEL or codes. I used complete dash and engine harness from 2.0L to make swap easiest at my end. I have had it up to 120km/h no problems and with power mode permanently on the throttle response is great. I had the advantage of a shop that cured any wiring issues and was able to reset the computer. The OBD-II connector from the 2.0L was retained and used for diagnosis. I wish i had used the larger 2.3 fuel rail and injectors but wasn't sure the 2.0L computer would work them right. May still install them to see but that's for another day.
The interest in my thread fizzled so didn't do a complete write up. Plus I am not that different that some of the existing ones. BRD HNTR was a great help and TT was too. I would also recommend their motor mounts. And manual is much simpler if you can go that route.
Sounds like you are on the right track. Any questions, ask away.
Quick recap of what I used from which donor.
2005 Aerio 2.3L - Head and block.
2000 Tracker 2.0L - complete engine, tranny, dash harness, computer, intake exhaust manifolds, fuel rail injectors, accessories. Welded a pipe from stock 1.6L exhaust to 2.0L manifold.
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Quick recap of what I used from which donor.
2005 Aerio 2.3L - Head and block.
2000 Tracker 2.0L - complete engine, tranny, dash harness, computer, intake exhaust manifolds, fuel rail injectors, accessories. Welded a pipe from stock 1.6L exhaust to 2.0L manifold.
The more research I do the more attractive this swap looks from the wiring perspective. One thing I'm wondering that doesn't seem to be addressed though is the ignition cylinder and key. I don't think these vehicles have this issue because I've gotten keys cut at the hardware store, but I wanted to make sure. Were all you guys able to use the stock track/kick key and ignition cylinder with your new wiring. The reason I ask is because I have all the parts mentioned above except for dash wiring from a 2.0, and the pick and pull yards never have the keys.
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My dash and column are the stock 1995 Sunrunner. I didn't so the harness install personally, friend much more suited to it than me did, but we never discussed a compatibility issue there.
Check with Brent from TT if you can reuse the 1998 dash harness. There are alot of similarities in the two harnesses.
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The other catch is the intake now goes to the opposite side of the engine bay so need to relocate items. The radiator is from the 2.0L. And a 1in body lift will make fitment easier. I cut a few sections of the underside of the hood. Check the photos in my other thread for where I moved things underhood. Washer reservoir, p/s reservoir and such.
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Just another update in the quest for more knowledge about this swap. I exchanged some words with Brent at Trail Tough, specifically regarding the CEL codes and the OBD II plug issues found when using an automatic 2.3 donor. He stated that the codes do not effect the running condition or tail pipe emissions, but will fail if testing in your jurisdiction that plugs in for codes. He also went on to say that you would be able to read any codes with a normal OBD II scan tool with the TT wiring.
Personally this wouldn't be an issue because there is no emission testing where I live, and I use a mounted OBD II enabled trip computer to track my mileage, So I'll know when a new code pops up.
I know BRD HUNTER said they don't have a OBD II plug in their wiring earlier, but they must have changed this. Personally, I wouldn't purchase it without this wired in, so maybe it come from customer demand.
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We tore out all the wiring and just installed what was needed, which wasn't much.
I got the TT information from Herman. We spent a lot time on phone discussing what he needed & what he got. He bought the motor , wiring conversion , and still got an automatic to match his manual. He was on a trip to Moab when not having the CEL light or OBDII port made his rig to bad to run trails.
If you are going to run electric fan, get a good one, these motors run hotter than the 1.6L. We tried using the Aux fan of our 93, and it was not good enough, so had over heating issues.
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I'd like to try using the fans out of the aerio. The rad is only small but it has 2 massive electric fans on it. I believe you when you say they are hotter though. I daily drive an 06 aerio, and even when it's -10 Celsius it reaches opperating temp in about 2 minutes, vs about 5/6 min in the 1.6 tracker.
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perryd
You will be pleased with the conversion.
This Tracker has a reputation on the southern Oregon dunes for how fast it is considering it is a full bodied vehicle with a heater.
Steve in post #9 gave the link to the 1.6 to 2.3 conversion I did to a 1997 Tracker 4 door which gives most all details.
I purchased all needed parts and motor mounts from Trail Tough and they also did the wiring harness which requires almost all if not all the wiring from the 2.3 donor.
I have not yet had TT modify the Dash to get the tack working.
TT did not wire in the check engine light for reasons they explained, but the scan tool still tells you why it is not running correctly.
I had a TPS and a spark plug fail and the scan tool isolated the problem.
The only negative is that I have an automatic ECU (which most of them apparently are) which apparently does not throttle down as fast as a manual ECU as it has been explained to me.
I wait an extra second when up shifting to give the engine a chance to slow down to make it easier on the Tracker 5 speed synchros.
Herman
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Herman, good to see you aboard.
Regarding Tach, we did not have any issue with the tach and did not move needle. As we stripped wiring down to basics I do not remember where I got the tach signal from. I did spend a lot of time going over wiring diagrams.
Interesting about Herman's clutch signal, as I am looking at another sweet swap and ECU has a clutch signal that I am guessing does a fast idle down. Perhaps that function is still in Aerio automatic ECU with no wire or signal going to it. TT may know, and I do not have Aerio wiring diagrams now. One of the problems with getting this information is that one has to know what question to ask to get correct answer.
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The ECU had an output for running the tach, I remember that much. We did need to add an inline temp sensor since there was no output for running the stock temp sensor in the dashboard.
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Thanks for the words of wisdom herman, the swap is becoming closer to a reality the more I read. Between talking to you guys and trail tough it's proving to be much more well supported than I thought.
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Well, after 8 years I figure I owe everyone an update. I completed the swap between December 2021 and February 2022. Sadly, I did not document it as well as I had hoped.
Quick Recap:
- Donor car 2005 Suzuki Aerio FWD A/T acquired
Removed engine and harnesses
Obtained parts from a 2.0
Vitara are previously discussed in this thread
Ordered trail tough engine mounts
1.6 Flywheel was machined and then drilled for the 8 crank bolts on Aerio 2.3 locally.
With help of some other enthusiasts online, simplified and adapted the 2.3 harness to run engine on stand.
Mated 2.3 stand alone harness to 1.6 (the simple, temp sensor, start/run wires, alternator signal, etc.)
Installed rad from 2.7 XL7 and 17” electric fan (wired to Aerio cooling fan relay)
Changed a resistor in cluster for tach
Overall I am very happy with it. It’s like a whole different vehicle. Keeps up on the highway and can merge like a modern car. The only thing I would do differently next time is maybe try crossover tubes and keep the stock rad. I had to cut a little bit of the under hood bracing as well as the rad mounts. Would have liked to leave that stock. The 2.7 rad is overkill, the fan rarely kicks in.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Ccc23CWuO4E/?igsh=MTVsMnZsZzM5NTA5 (https://www.instagram.com/p/Ccc23CWuO4E/?igsh=MTVsMnZsZzM5NTA5)
A couple of pictures here.