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manual hubs: what I think . . .I think

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Offline KickTurn

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manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« on: March 14, 2006, 06:36:32 PM »
So, I'm new to Suzukis, and I'm looking forward to building a 95 1.6 16v Kick.  Based on my searches on this forum and the FSM, I think I think:

1)  that a switch from auto to manual hubs is just a matter of six bolts.  Is that correct?  No differences in spline count or anything else?

2)  that the FSM shows the auto hubs with different bolts (than the manuals) and no cone washers, so will I need to find cone washers to go with the manual hubs?  True?  But if so would the cone washers be of a different diameter?

3) that the stock manual hubs are Aisins.  I should be able to find these on some Sidekicks, Toyotas, Isuzus, and Sammys.  True?  If so, can some one tell me what years of these vehicles (including other Kicks) would be straight swaps with my 95 Kick?

Ok, if you can all get me straight on this stuff I will be a better human being.

Thanks!
95 Kick JLX 4x4 4dr 1.6 16v. 
235s, manual hubs.

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Offline ack

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2006, 06:56:51 PM »
Any Samurai ASIN hub will work on a TracKick probably up to '98 -- '96 fer sure.

I slapped a set of Samurai Asins on my '93 'Kick with no problems. 

There is an article at Off-Road.com (do a search at Ack's FAQ in the Forum for Asin. The link is in my signature) about identifying and rebuilding Asin locking hubs.

Hope this helps!

BTW: Anyone want a set of auto-locking hubs?
Ack

'88 Samurai, '88.5 Samurai TT, '11 Ford Transit Connect XLT
Ack's FAQ  http://www.acksfaq.com

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Offline KickTurn

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2006, 09:15:04 PM »
ack, thanks for the link-- that is a great article on hub overhaul, and I printed it.  I'm still unclear on some stuff though:

1)  Is a switch from auto to manual hubs just a matter of six bolts?  Am I missing something?

2)  The FSM shows the auto hubs with different diameter bolts (than the manuals) and no cone washers, so will I need to find cone washers to go with the manual hubs?  And if so would the cone washers be of a different diameter?

« Last Edit: March 14, 2006, 09:56:59 PM by KickTurn »
95 Kick JLX 4x4 4dr 1.6 16v. 
235s, manual hubs.

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2006, 09:20:24 PM »
Same size bolt, but the Auto hubs use regular bolts
with lock washers, the manuals use bolts with cone
washers on them, and I think they could be Allen head
too, but I can't remember off hand, either way it's the
same thread, so yes, it's a matter of 6 bolts.

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Offline zutefisk

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2006, 09:25:21 PM »
2) One way to get cone washers is to go to a "you pull it" junk yard, pull your own hubs and keep the bolts and washers.

3) The hubs have to match your axles. Samurai, Sidekick, or Tracker. I don't know about the others.
87 Samurai

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Offline Digger

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2006, 11:14:54 PM »
Sammy Asin hubs do NOT just bolt right up to track/kicks! In a few instances they do, but most of the time they do not! The c-clip that holds the end of the cv shaft into the knuckle sticks out just far enough that sammy hubs will clamp it tight, not allowing any free-movement in the unlocked position, effectively locking the hubs permanently! You need about 1/8" or so more space which is already built into the housing of the Track/kick hubs, but not the sammy hubs. You can use Asin sammy hubs, but you need to make up for that lack of space by using a thick gasket or making a 1/8" spacer plate to go between the hub and mount....
Had a cool sig pic till I changed the text... sigh...
90 Tracker: "Silver", 2" BL, 1-1/2" Coil Spacers, Strut mount flip, Calmini Header, Winch, 31" Swamper radials, Sold.
98 Suzuki X-90: Calmini 2" Sus, 1-1/4" whl spcrs, 2" Exhaust, Cobra Safari Bar, Neon, Sold.
96 Suzuki X-90: Mostly stock daily driver(for now)

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2006, 11:59:12 PM »
Or removing that clip so trail axle swaps are easier  ;)
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2006, 04:56:21 AM »
Or removing that clip so trail axle swaps are easier  ;)

I wouldn't recommend that. Without the circlip the shafts are free to move away from the hub which could leave your wheel bearings exposed to the elements
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2006, 07:40:44 AM »
I guess I'm lucky, 275,000 miles, 200,000
with the clips removed and still on my first set

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Offline Digger

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2006, 11:30:56 AM »
Not only expose the bearings to the elements, but under full flex, full lock it might allow the shaft to slip out enough to wedge in crooked and cause all kinds of problems...

On a tracker/sidekick, the cv shaft uses a circlip under the lock-in/out hub to hold the shaft into the knuckle.  On a sammy, the end of the axle shaft has a circlip INSIDE the lock-in/out hub(ouside of the base's splines) that you have to pull the cap off the sammy hub to get to before the rest of the hub will come off. Many sammy guys I know just remove that clip and never put it back so that trailside hub swaps are much faster and easier, but I wouldn't recomend running without the clip on a track/kick because there's just too much stuff that moves around on the IFS....
Had a cool sig pic till I changed the text... sigh...
90 Tracker: "Silver", 2" BL, 1-1/2" Coil Spacers, Strut mount flip, Calmini Header, Winch, 31" Swamper radials, Sold.
98 Suzuki X-90: Calmini 2" Sus, 1-1/4" whl spcrs, 2" Exhaust, Cobra Safari Bar, Neon, Sold.
96 Suzuki X-90: Mostly stock daily driver(for now)

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Offline ack

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2006, 02:53:58 PM »
Samurai to TracKick compatibility?

Hmmm.  I'll have to take a look again.

Until then, I defer to Digger's opinion.
Ack

'88 Samurai, '88.5 Samurai TT, '11 Ford Transit Connect XLT
Ack's FAQ  http://www.acksfaq.com

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Offline bandit86

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2006, 03:09:30 PM »
I have many years wheeling on the original auto hubs, love the factI dont have to get out.  I'd keep them
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Offline KickTurn

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2006, 08:37:45 PM »
Hey, thanks to all who replied-- the responses were very helpful.  You guys are a great resource.
95 Kick JLX 4x4 4dr 1.6 16v. 
235s, manual hubs.

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Offline Digger

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2006, 09:15:14 PM »
Samurai to TracKick compatibility?

Hmmm.  I'll have to take a look again.

Until then, I defer to Digger's opinion.

I speak from first hand experience. The Goblin had Auto hubs and I scored a nice pair of Sammy Asin hubs and tried to swap them on. The only way they would fit is if I removed the circlip or put a thick gasket/spacer between the hub and mount...
Had a cool sig pic till I changed the text... sigh...
90 Tracker: "Silver", 2" BL, 1-1/2" Coil Spacers, Strut mount flip, Calmini Header, Winch, 31" Swamper radials, Sold.
98 Suzuki X-90: Calmini 2" Sus, 1-1/4" whl spcrs, 2" Exhaust, Cobra Safari Bar, Neon, Sold.
96 Suzuki X-90: Mostly stock daily driver(for now)

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Offline wolf66

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Re: manual hubs: what I think . . .I think
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2006, 12:08:56 PM »
Calmini says about the aftermarket manual hubs they sell:

 "Recommend for any Sidekick or Tracker with a suspension lift to help relieve CV stress."

Do manual hubs relieve cv stress over autos and why?
'96 Suzuki X90-4" lift-snorkle-30x9.5's on 8x15 wheels-5.12 gears-winch-added rear seat-DT header-PioneerMP3-CB-GPS-roof rack-rear mounted full size spare