I've been working on some transmissions for a month now (I think)

I rebuilt two spares I have at the same time. Not as hard as I  thought. Just finding some good stretches of time to get into them. I opted not to replace the synchros or cage bearings since all looked good and felt good. Gears good too. I put all Nachi bearings and replaced the front and rear seals and sealed them up.

I put the transmission I wanted to use on my vehicle because it seemed to cruise better with it as far as getting up to speed and holding 70. I tried it in the garage before I put everything back together and shifted thru all the gears. Transfer in neutral. It seemed to shift fine thru all gears but when I let out on the clutch in 1st, It sounded like the synchros were still spinning or something. Anyways, it wouldn't quite engage first gear. Damnit!!!

I tried adjusting the clutch everyway I could think but coudn't resolve the problem. I ended up dropping that transmission and putting the other one I rebuilt on. The whole time thinking that it might have the same problem since I rebuilt them together. Got it all hooked up and tested it. Seemed good. I put everything back together and tight and test drove it.  Perfect. Runs like new. Not quite as good of a puller like the one I wanted to put in but quiet. I also replaced my transfer case at the same time. It's quiet too.

Now I need to open up the other one and see why the 1st gear isn't working. I think the synchro is  bound up and hopefully I'll be able to tell. It's a good transmission. I know it is. Just a small bug.

I opened up the transmission that was on the vehicle as of Friday evening. The 5th gears are broke. Makes perfect sense since it made a slapping sound in 5th. I will try to pickup a parts tranny to fix it.

I wonder if there is an easier way to test them without having to drop mine and install on my vehicle. That craps getting old. Oh well. Off to work. The vicious cycle continues.

-Adam

When you talk about your vehicle "cruising" better, it could be that the trannys have different 5th gear ratios.
The 5 speeds that came behind the 16V engines have a .795 5th gear ratio, compared to the 5 speeds that came behind the 8Vs having a .86 5th gear ratio.

Only thing is that it's in a samurai behind a 1.3 8 valve. I think if I remember right, the 88.5 had a lower 5th gear or something like that. I can never remember all those details. I was thinking that that was why it seemed different than the others anyways.


I did just get off the phone with Robert at Petroworks and he talked to (Harvey?) or... heck I've been up all night so I don't remember who. He said the problem with my tranny that won't quite go into 1st is the low speed synchro assembly is probably in backwards. It goes either way but it only works right one way. I'll have to make a note of that so I don't do that again. It has a groove in it to one side. He said it's a common mistake on the rebuilds.

I guess I'll fix it and throw it back in to see how it does. Then I have another one to rebuild and I'll do the same. Seems like a waste but I sure want to make sure all my rebuilds are tested so if I want to sell them I know I'm selling good transmissions.

I also have a whiny transfer case to rebuild. I think someone forgot to keep good gear oil in all of them. 

-Adam

Only thing is that it's in a samurai behind a 1.3 8 valve. I think if I remember right, the 88.5 had a lower 5th gear or something like that. I can never remember all those details. I was thinking that that was why it seemed different than the others anyways.


I did just get off the phone with Robert at Petroworks and he talked to (Harvey?) or... heck I've been up all night so I don't remember who. He said the problem with my tranny that won't quite go into 1st is the low speed synchro assembly is probably in backwards. It goes either way but it only works right one way. I'll have to make a note of that so I don't do that again. It has a groove in it to one side. He said it's a common mistake on the rebuilds.

I guess I'll fix it and throw it back in to see how it does. Then I have another one to rebuild and I'll do the same. Seems like a waste but I sure want to make sure all my rebuilds are tested so if I want to sell them I know I'm selling good transmissions.

I also have a whiny transfer case to rebuild. I think someone forgot to keep good gear oil in all of them. 

-Adam

Oops.  I don't know why I was thinking you were working on trackick trannys.
Yes, you are correct that the later samurai trannys had the lower 5th gear ratio as well (.865).  The earlier samurais had the higher 5th (.795).  How you can tell the difference (without opening them up to count the teeth)....the later tranny has a 3/8" drive drain plug in it.....the earlier trannys used the hex head drain plug.
I think I know what you are talking about in the tranny.  The trackick tranny I just rebuild had the same type of sleeve (I think that is the "proper" name of the piece).  None of the tranny diagrams I ran across showed enough detail to tell which way it went.  Luckily, I laid everything out in the order it came off the shaft.....also, IIRC, if you slid the sleeve each way, it wouldn't move and engage the clusters quite as good one way as it did the other.
Also, the little keys (the 3 small pieces that are about 3/16" wide and 1/2" long), that fit "inside" some of the sleeves, fit a certain way too.  The keys for certain sleeves were symmetrical, but the keys for other sleeves had a bigger "ridge" on one end than the other, or the ridge in the center part of the key was not exactly centered (I can't remember for sure which way it was....it could have been both).  I can't remember which ones had the assymetrical keys....but I know at least one of them did and at least one of the other sleeves had symmetrical keys.  This was for a trackick tranny, but I assume that the samurai tranny is the same setup.  I tried putting the keys in "backwards" (just to see if it made a difference), and IIRC, the sleeve would not engage the gears properly when shifting.  To simulate shifting, I just slid the sleeves back and forth, until they "clicked" into place.  So I could see how the sleeves engaged the gears, I did this with the tranny housing still split and the shafts laid in the tranny.

All my trannys have the same hex head drain plugs. I wonder if the drain plugs are interchangable. Maybe someone just put the hex heads on the older early transmission. I'm confused though. I think Hawk just told me that the early transmission had the 3/8 drive and the newer transmissions went to the hex head. I think what you are saying is that the older transmissions had the hex head and they went to 3/8 drive on the newer ones. Anyways, mine all have the hex head. I wonder if I can count the teeth to tell. for what it's worth, the transfer case I  pulled off had hex drive plugs and the one I  put on has 3/8 drive. I think they switched plugs on the transfer cases at some point too.

-Adam

IIRC, the holes are different sizes, so the plugs will not interchange.
Yes, 3/8" square drive=later tranny (.865), hex plug=earlier tranny (.795).
To count the teeth you have to remove the rear section of the tranny...I think this can be done without splitting the case horizontally....I don't know what the teeth count should be for each ratio....but I am assuming it should be like a ring and pinion....count the number of teeth on the meshing gears and divide it out (should give you either .865 or .795).  You could also put the tranny in 5th gear and spin the input shaft one turn.....and see how much of a revolution the output shaft turned (either .865 or .795 of a revolution).
You are correct, they did change the plugs on the tcases too (88.5 as well, I assume)....but all tcases are the same, so it really doesn't matter.

O.K. Back to the tranny that wouldn't shift into 1st. I found out this evening when I took it apart that I did have the low speed synchronizer assembly (that's the bigger one that's kind of in the middle of the shaft) on backwards. Unfortunately it's the most time consuming to get to since it's a couple bearings and a couple circlips into the shaft. There is a protruding ridge on one side that if it is on backwards, it interferes with the 1st gear nibs and only lets it get over the synchro but not the actual gear.  Anyways, I flipped it and put the assembly back into the case and tested all the shifting and all seems good. I  would say it's fixed. I sealed it back up so I'll call it done. To keep my transmissions straight, I'll call this the Anoka Minnisota transmission that I think has the lower 5th gear.

The transmission currently in my vehicle is the one that was in it when I bought it. It's rebuilt as of last week and shifts good and is nice and quiet but I think it has the higher 5th gear.

Now for the transmission off my parts vehicle. Both 5th gears are broken, and it appears that the 5th gear side of the reverse synchronizer hub assembly has some wear on it's nibs although all the synchros throughout the transmission seem to be in good shape with no distortion. All needle bearings are good and there is no wear on the shaft or bushings they ride on. All other gears are good. As far as the main bearings other than the needle bearings, a couple feel o.k. and a couple feel loose. There is one sealed bearing at the front of the main shaft that feels tight. (this is two out of three of these transmissions that has the sealed bearing up front. I wonder why that is??

Anyways, I think I'll pick up the lower geared 5th gears and I'm not sure about the reverse synchronizer hub assembly. I think I'll check all my bearings from the other transmission rebuilds and see how tight they are. I think I have a pair of seals so hopefully I can rebuild it for the cost of the gears. If I can get the gears cheaper I may go ahead and buy new bearings. It may have to wait a week for a little more money.

All I know is what I was told and that is that if the needle bearings are intact, not discolored or loose, and the shaft or bushing they ride on is smooth and not discolored, they're good. As far as the synchros, all three transmissions shift fine so I have to believe they're good. Maybe I better put new main bearings though because it's hard to tell  if some of the old one's are within tolerance.

OOPS, THIS GOT LONG SO YOU MAY WANT TO PRINT IT FOR BATHROOM READING!

Your thoughts are welcome.

-Adam

OOPS, THIS GOT LONG SO YOU MAY WANT TO PRINT IT FOR BATHROOM READING!

Your thoughts are welcome.

-Adam

That was my thought.
But now your a Tranny Pro

Quote from: daddyizzle on August 31, 2007, 09:58:55 PM

OOPS, THIS GOT LONG SO YOU MAY WANT TO PRINT IT FOR BATHROOM READING!

Your thoughts are welcome.

-Adam

That was my thought.
But now your a Tranny Pro

Far from it but just enough knowledge to be dangerous. Now I have a noisy transfer case to tear into. Hopefully it's at least as easy. I'm a little confused between the ebay kit (which looks like the Hawk kit) and the Petro works kit (which comes with some shims and stuff) If only I could afford some 4:1 gears to throw in it!!!

-Adam

There is one sealed bearing at the front of the main shaft that feels tight. (this is two out of three of these transmissions that has the sealed bearing up front. I wonder why that is
-Adam

Why are some bearings sealed and others not?  Is that what you are asking?  If so, it could be that the bearings have been replaced before, or it is just what was put in at the factory.  I don't know that it makes much difference whether the bearings are sealed or not.....gear oil will be thin enough to seep through the seal anyway.....at least on the trannys I have torn apart with sealed bearings.

I pulled up the jimny service manual and looked at the overhaul instructions. More detailed than ours and the breakdown is a clearer picture as well. There was an excerpt that mentioned the sealed bearing at the front of the main shaft I believe. I'm thinking that the service manual I looked at was for the 90 s Jimnys and maybe Suzuki switched to the sealed bearing on the later models thinking it would outlast the open cage bearing. I don't know why I'm hung up on this but  since the front cover plate on the transmission allows for the fluid to circulate around the front main bearing, it would make sense that they would put an open cage bearing (If that's the correct name for it. ) Oh well. I just need a pair of 5th gears to replace the broken ones in my 3rd transmission and I'll be done with my 3rd rebuild. I guess I call Hawk next week.

-Adam

The late model trans and x-fer case has the sealed bearings in them, the two transmissions that you have should have different drain plugs on them as well. I like the early trans for the lower diff gears it helps with the highway speeds. the sealed bearing in the front is prob. for a oops with the oiling on that one bearing,LOL

I like the early trans for the lower diff gears it helps with the highway speeds.

Not sure what you are trying to say there.  But just to clarify.....the 86-88 trannys have a .795 5th gear ratio, and the 88.5-95 trannys have a .865 5th gear ratio.  All 86-95 samurais have 3.727 axle ratios.

The late model trans and x-fer case has the sealed bearings in them, the two transmissions that you have should have different drain plugs on them as well. I like the early trans for the lower diff gears it helps with the highway speeds. the sealed bearing in the front is prob. for a oops with the oiling on that one bearing,LOL

I'm confused as to what you are saying. I thought the lower 5th gear would help with the highway travel by giving you a slightly lower 5th gear, but not as high of a top speed. That oops with the oiling- what do you mean.

-Adam

ok on the gears in the trans meaning lower numerical number, say you have 5.12's in your sammie and it has the late model trans in it and it is screaming the engine down the road in fifth gear you can put an 1988 trans in there with a better freeway fifth gear in it to lower your engine r.p.m.'s, do the math .8 is closer to 1to1 than .7ish, the next thing on the list was the bearing saying that maybe suzuki had an oiling problem with that one bearing and they started putting in sealed bearings, and maybe they are better for towing the rigs behind a motor home? just a thought.