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Supercharger questions

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2007, 02:26:13 PM »
Maybe I'm not doing some calculations right, but 1 bar = 14.5psi correct?  If I'm only operating 5psi boost that's well within 1 bar, or am I not taking normal atmospheric pressure into account or something?

Its absolute pressure thats measured. Normal atmospheric pressure is approx. 1 bar so any boost gives a pressure above 1bar, ie 5psi boost is 19.5psi absolute.
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1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

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Offline bentparts

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2007, 03:58:27 PM »
I'd like to add another question into the mix here. I recently read that the equivilent of adding boost pressure into the system, is simply raising compresion, 3lbs boost =+/- 1point in compression. To me that sounds about right, and knowing that the 16v engine is 9.5 to 1 when fresh, that means 5lbs boost would be effectivly raising the compression ratio to about 11.5 to 1. My experience has primarily been with motorcycles, but an engine is an engine. A properly prepared engine can easily run that kind of compression using premium pump gas. In fact, many OEM's currently market vehicles with those kind of numbers, many of them even higher in the motorcycle world. 12 or 12.5 to 1 is common and rpm ceilings are stratispheric, like 13, 14, 15000 rpm. Motors as small as .6ltr are making 115-120 hp, low toqure though, 40-50 lbs. But 1ltr, FI, inline 4 street bike engines  routinely make in the 170's with well over 100lbs torque. A 1.6 liter 4 would be considered big for a 4 cyln motorbike motor, and there are some, and they  reliably provide 200 hp, maybe 150 ftlbs, on pump premium. I'm getting a little tired of all the tail chasing involved with force feeding these motors. So many issues related to heat with a turbo, and mechanics with a blower. I'm thinking there must be pistons availble in the correct bore size, and deck height, to effectivly raise compression to at least 11 to 1. With corresponding cumbustion chamber re shaping and an accurate radiused valve job, along with the mods I've made to my fuel and air systems already, coupled with a new 2.5 in exhaust, this should net me an across the board increase in the neighborhood of 30hp. If the cam timing was shifted 800 to 1000 rpm lower, I think this might me a better engine than a boosted one, especially one that is primarily used as an adventure type vehicle. The biggest advantage is the simplicity. No added external parts to break or require field service. I figure my turbo motor made near 135hp,  running 4-5 lbs boost, the majority of that being made above 3500 rpm. That's strictly a seatofthepants estimate, but close I think. I believe that a fresh, NA 16V with the above mods could come close, reliably, without the added complication, and much more of that power would be available much sooner. Premium fuel would be a must, no different than the turbo, and internal and external cooling would also need improvement, in my case also already done. I know honda d16 motors have a huge availability of aftermarket support, and the pistons are supposed to be close from the conversations I've had with a couple of local tuners. Cams are available from several sources, a couple right here on this site. 30 HP doesn't sound like much, and it really isn't, but when your starting with 95, thats 1/3rd more, 33%more, that's a good #. Anyone done this to one of these Trackick motors? Or know of anyone?
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Offline cj

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2007, 07:12:06 PM »
As I was reading your post about raising comp I was going to say that the Honda D16 piston would be worth a look considering the Honda boys use the G16B pistons to lower their comp. ratio when adding boost.
 
A good cam and exhaust along with an adjustable cam gear made my 1.6 go much better but it still needed that piggyback interceptor added as there were some air/fuel ratio issues due to the cam grind that needed attention. Personally if I had another 1.6 I'd just do that as it was effective and pretty straight forward without having to tear down the engine.

The other option but it does get more involved is to go the big bore using Miata pistons but with these the rod needs some minor maching to take the piston pin. I looked at this when I had my 1.6 and by all accounts it works well although the guy that was doing this has since gone to custom pistons for his later conversions as he doesn't need to alter the rods plus he can specify whatever comp. ratio is required. I am now looking at the option of doing a big bore on the J20A taking it out to 2.3 like the Aerio as I can't get that engine here.

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Offline bentparts

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2007, 07:36:38 PM »
Hmmmm, I wonder how big a bore can be managed with the current ( 95 to 99) 16v block? bigger bore, + higher comp= more torque and HP. Definitely worth looking into.
The usual stuff, and 2nd generation Air to liquid intercooled TURBOCHARGER

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2007, 05:08:28 AM »
Hmmmm, I wonder how big a bore can be managed with the current ( 95 to 99) 16v block? bigger bore, + higher comp= more torque and HP. Definitely worth looking into.

I'd be cautious about overboring the block. I've seen a lot of cracked Zuk blocks and overboring is going to make them weaker still. Higher compression may well be easy to implement, the Zuk motor is designed to suit worldwide markets and from what I've seen is timed to suit some pretty low octane fuel (88-91RON). If you're running quality fuel then theres a fair bit of scope for tuning.
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

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Offline bentparts

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2007, 04:24:23 AM »
Going to try and find a source for pistons. Raising compression seems like it might do the trick. If and when I find a piston that is a drop in I'll continue this thread with a new write up. Untill then , anyone know a good source?
The usual stuff, and 2nd generation Air to liquid intercooled TURBOCHARGER

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Offline brentd27

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2007, 01:30:05 PM »
Wanted to thank everybody again for their input.  I feel like I've learned a lot during this discussion and it's resulted in me reading even more than I ever anticipated about boost-related systems.  I'm not going to end up doing anything until I have my other vehicle drivable again but I think I will probably proceed with an SC12 supercharger and who knows what else.  I'll probably start with just the supercharger and an intercooler and just see what happens, then I'll throw more complexity at the system until it behaves the way I want it to.  I don't really care all that much about efficiency of the system.  It's just one of those thing I'll do for fun just to see if I can actually do it successfully.  Hopefully I won't end up blowing my engine.  :P