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Supercharger questions

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Offline brentd27

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2007, 07:35:13 PM »
This might be a stupid question, but what about the distributor vacuum advance? Also, I've added a cruise control system that is vacuum driven.  Will I be SOL on that?

And for other options on Superchargers, I've seen a some made for Mini-Coopers, 1.8L VW Bugs, and 2.4L toyota previa's.  Would the 2.4L one be too much or could I throw a larger pulley on it and gear it down?

BTW:  Thanks to everybody that has replied so far.  This discussion is fascinating and it's definitely giving me a lot to think about.

to answer your other question about boost where there should be vacuum the answer is yes you need to change the PCV system. Your system will put full boost into the crankcase causing you to pour oil out of every seal in your motor. Seals will purge at 2-3 lbs. The answer I found to this is to simply plug off the PCV port and run an inch of heater hose with another plug on the intake plenum. From the valve cover tube run a breather hose long enough to keep dirt from coming in. Took me about a week to figure it out. After that every thing else is fine. Your brake booster has a check valve and will move back to full vacuum (18" mercury) at idle or anytime not under boost.

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tracker8v4x4

Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2007, 09:06:35 PM »
when u guys say the supercharger is for a 4.6/5.0 and its gonna be to much boost couldnt he just put a bov (blow off valve)  on it

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Offline 93trackaddict

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2007, 04:37:22 AM »
I have an arctic cat T 660 snowmobile. The T is for turbo. This is a 4 stroke. If you ever look under the hood of one of these it looks just like a minature version of a car motor. Alternator etc. its all there. The turbo is not very big. With limited space under the hood of a tracker I always thought it could be the best setup. My turbo pipe has become disconnected before and the sled will only run about 50 mph. It really makes a big diff. The only difficulty would be that the turbo is electronically controlled but I do know of some racers really boosting these things up, so there has to be a way. Just thought I would mention it. yOu Might want to check it out.

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Offline bentparts

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2007, 04:44:25 AM »
The supercharger you mentioned sounds like a good fit, however trying to find any mechanical device built in the 50's or 60's that doesn't need a complete rebuild may be problematic at best. Then theres the problem of finding parts for a 50 year old supercharger. Are they still making these? Hell, I might switch if there were new ones available!
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Offline brentd27

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2007, 05:45:28 PM »
Check out www.vs57.com  There's all the info you could ever want to know about them on there.  Parts are still available as McCulloch eventually became Paxton which was then bought out by Vortech.  Vortech didn't want to mess with the older centrifugal Paxton/McCulloch superchargers so they sold all the tooling, engineering drawings and blueprints, complete parts inventory and the rights to reproduce anything needed for the older McCulloch superchargers to Paradise Wheels Inc.  I don't think the VS57 is actually made anymore, but you can still get replacement parts to rebuild them.

The supercharger you mentioned sounds like a good fit, however trying to find any mechanical device built in the 50's or 60's that doesn't need a complete rebuild may be problematic at best. Then theres the problem of finding parts for a 50 year old supercharger. Are they still making these? Hell, I might switch if there were new ones available!

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2007, 11:39:09 AM »
when u guys say the supercharger is for a 4.6/5.0 and its gonna be to much boost couldnt he just put a bov (blow off valve)  on it

Not too much boost, just too big. With a big supercharger you need to compress a lot of air to get any boost. You can compensate to a degree by spinning it faster but it becomes inefficient.
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Offline cj

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2007, 11:45:26 AM »
Have a look around for the SC12 supercharger that Toyota fitted to the 1.6 4AGZE. It has a clutch like an air con. You should be able to pick one up pretty cheap. They also did a SC14 that was fitted to the 2.0 1GGZE.

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Offline brentd27

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2007, 02:35:07 PM »
I like the idea of being able to kick the charger in and out as needed, but does the SC-12 have enough flow-through for the engine to run properly with the clutch turned off?

How would that work?  Have relays set up so when you flip a switch the clutch engages and maybe a secondary fuel pump kicks in to boost fuel pressure?  I guess it wouldn't be too hard to rig up a servo controlled bypass plenum for when the charger wasn't running.

How would mixing ethanol into the fuel mesh with using a supercharger?  I've seen some comments that you have to use higher octane gas, could you get around that by running a certain percentage of Ethanol?

I wonder how creative I could get with the fuel system and still have a vehicle that runs?  :P


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Offline chet

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2007, 03:30:03 PM »
I'm pretty sure the SC12 has an internal bypass like a wastegate that opens when the SC stops. look up hobbes switch for adding additional fueling.
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Offline brentd27

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2007, 05:35:46 PM »
This may be another stupid question, but my mind is really running in circles on this whole super-charger idea...  Particularly now that you guys have pointed me to the SC12 with the electronic clutch and built-in bypass.  So here's the question...  Instead of tinkering with the stock fuel system and trying to boost the pressure on it, what if I did something like add a small auxiliary tank somewhere and set it up with a second fuel pump so that when the boost is turned on it pumps ethanol into the fuel line along with the stock gas pump running?  This would serve as an octane booster while the boost is running and also raise the fuel pressure...  Or would it be simpler to just run a water/alcohol injection system?  Is it even necessary?  Am I going nuts and taking y'all with me?

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Offline beercheck

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2007, 06:45:58 AM »
This may be another stupid question, but my mind is really running in circles on this whole super-charger idea...  Particularly now that you guys have pointed me to the SC12 with the electronic clutch and built-in bypass.  So here's the question...  Instead of tinkering with the stock fuel system and trying to boost the pressure on it, what if I did something like add a small auxiliary tank somewhere and set it up with a second fuel pump so that when the boost is turned on it pumps ethanol into the fuel line along with the stock gas pump running?  This would serve as an octane booster while the boost is running and also raise the fuel pressure...  Or would it be simpler to just run a water/alcohol injection system?  Is it even necessary?  Am I going nuts and taking y'all with me?

Might as well just go nitrous and be done with it at that point.
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Offline sidekicksrock

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2007, 07:01:33 AM »
Quote
Might as well just go nitrous and be done with it at that point.

What is the fun in that? you don't get that beautiful supercharger whine going down the street, plus you have to keep buying nitrous. This could be a beautiful thing, fairly easy to install and you can turn it off and on at will.

There is really only one way to set something like this up. you need to get a piggy back controller for the ECM, they aren't to expensive. Then book some time on a dyno at the local speed shop. If they know what they are doing they will be able to dial the truck in up until the demand exceeds the capabilities of the fuel system. Then if it is a 16v you can look at installing bigger injectors if you want more. If it is a 8V you can get an aftermarket TBI.
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Offline JoeCool

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2007, 06:11:53 PM »
Nitrous (NO2) just adds a lot of air in a condensed form. Without adding extra fuel you will run against lean melt down with the quickness. Plus has anybody mentioned Trackers have really spindly connecting rods? ECMs are great but Higher fuel pressure and/or high flow injectors with a clean O2 sensor should do fine. Menthol and the like are great if you are running 10+psi but otherwise some hood vents should be fine.
Menthol works by spraying on the outside of the inter cooler to bring down air charge temps. And by doing so Air condenses and you can stuff more air and fuel into the cylinders increasing power. Don't forget that an EGR pumps 600 degree exhaust gas into the cylinders. -- Side note 600 degrees F is still cooler than the 1200 degrees inside the cylinders and since exhaust gas doesn't burn it keeps temps down to keep pesky oxides of nitrogen (NOx) read smog} The point? Don't close off your EGR port and a few pounds boost doesn't necessitate an inter cooler.

 Pick a book called TurboChargers by Hugh MacInnes or any other how to and what are turbo books. I'm going to suggest turbos to you over superchargers because the power produced is a function of engine load as apposed to just engine speed. I now drive around town 1K RPM lower and believe that my mileage is doesn't differ much because of it. I also have a lot more low end power now. For the amount of work going in turbos have about the same headaches but a more versatile  power band.

Considering you already have headers and a few other goodies I'd suggest maybe a cam and cam pulley and a high flow filter and see how that does for you.
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2007, 04:48:06 AM »
ECMs are great but Higher fuel pressure and/or high flow injectors with a clean O2 sensor should do fine.

An 8V is a MAP based system, the stock MAP sensor only goes up to 1 bar so the ECU won't be capable of calculating fuelling under boost. You could try a 2 bar sensor but the ECU uses fixed MAP values for a number of parameters and these will all be wrong.
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
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Offline brentd27

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Re: Supercharger questions
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2007, 01:48:53 PM »
Maybe I'm not doing some calculations right, but 1 bar = 14.5psi correct?  If I'm only operating 5psi boost that's well within 1 bar, or am I not taking normal atmospheric pressure into account or something?