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Need serious timing help

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axelnut1

Need serious timing help
« on: December 18, 2007, 05:19:14 PM »
Ok here is what I need to know. It's a 1988 Zuk. I need to set the base timing from scratch. The flywheel mark is on the "T" at the inspection hole in the bell housing. The crank pulley mark is at 12:00 position with number 1 piston TDC. Where do I set the cam pulley for the timing belt? I have read to have the mark up and I have read to have it facing down (toward the crank mark) Which is right? There is no distributor on it yet so that is out of the question right now. Also don't have the timing belt cover on yet. Thanks in advance for any help.
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Offline mrfuelish

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Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2007, 10:05:40 PM »
Non text book but easy, up or down does not matter, it is a two to one ratio, you set you dist to # 1 or #4 buy the compression stroke, pull plugs nuber one and four and stuff a piece of scott towel in the threads of each one, turn the engine over until the paper shoots out, stop, bring it to T(prob. back it up a touch buy hand), if the front one #1 poped out point the rotor to the number one wire and install, etc. have fun.
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dicedaniels

Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2008, 09:43:22 PM »
it doesnt matter if the piston is at tdc of the compression or exhaust at this point because no matter what its still at tdc. cam arrow up crank arrow towards arrow on the block. its the easiest way to get it right. turning the crank to find the big poof is pointless because the cam isnt turning. just line up the arrows and put the belt on.
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Offline mrfuelish

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Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2008, 10:08:27 PM »
You missed the point about installing the belt mark up or down on the cam,if your cam does not spin with the belt on you have other problems.
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1987,1988,1988,1990 samurai's,  1953 m38a1,  1996 x-90,blue.1996 x-90 red.1994 2 door tracker.   only Dead Fish go with the flow.                No Hairy Nosed Wombats were ran over on the trail today.       My ZUK is Xenophobic.
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dicedaniels

Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2008, 07:41:15 PM »
???ok now im confused. it sounded like he has the timing belt off and needing to know how to put it back on. therefore the cam and crank spin seperatly. therefore turning the crank to find the big poof wouldnt work because the valves are not in time with the crank. he brought up the distributor being off to state that he has no refrence to tdc of the compression stroke and needed to know how to get base timing without any refrences other than the markings on the cam and crank pullys. right???

therefore if he just lines up the cam and crank marks and slaps the belt on he would be at tdc of #1 piston, and then he could worry about lining up the distributor for #1 spark.
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phloop

Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2008, 08:27:32 PM »
Quote from: dicedaniels on January 08, 2008, 07:41:15 PM
Therefore if he just lines up the cam and crank marks and slaps the belt on he would be at tdc of #1 piston, and then he could worry about lining up the distributor for #1 spark.

Will it be 50/50 that it will be 180deg. out ???
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dicedaniels

Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2008, 08:34:05 PM »
yep. unless he pays attention to where his valves are setting.
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phloop

Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2008, 08:49:43 PM »
Sounds like he may not.

axelnut, you need to check out ack's facts as it sounds like you do not have an FSM. I am sure you will find the info on changing the belt there.

I could post it but I can't type that well, and there is a bit of typing involved.
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Offline mrfuelish

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Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2008, 10:20:26 PM »
 what I'm getting at is you don't need a book if you do not take out your distributor it will be in time with your cam, if you put the belt on with the crank mark up and the cam mark down and you want the cam mark up just turn the crank shaft 360 deg. and the cam mark will be at the top with out taking the belt off again, the paper trick is so you know were to put the wires on the cap if you had them off and to find the compression on a cylinder with out taking the valve cover off, I like to do the least amount of work possible when doing an easy repair job that say I took apart and it took a while to get back to it and forgot where things went.
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phloop

Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2008, 11:28:34 PM »
 mrfuelish, that would work but he was asking how to set the timing with the dist. removed from the head. If the dist. was installed it would not be so confusing.

Just to be quick, the crank pulley should have it's mark pointing straight up at the little arrow thing cast into the front of the block. The mark on the cam pulley is pointing straight up at the notch in the top of the rear part of the belt cover, and #4 piston is on the compression stroke. If those are aligned, you should be in time. Or at least close too it.

The timing port is used to help set time, just like the timming pointer on the front of a small block Chevy.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 11:30:16 PM by phloop »
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Offline ack

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Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2008, 04:50:02 AM »
Okay, I'm so mad I could eat Fried Chicken!

This weekend, I'm gonna go though all my notes and examine what's left of my grey matter and create the end-all timing page!

Until then, heres the Reader's Digest version for axlenut1:


1. Take the valve cover off and examine the position of the valves at cylinder #1.  They all should be closed (rocker arms up).  If not turn the camshaft clockwise until they are.  My bet is that the camshaft mark will be "up".  Replace the valve cover.

2. Turn the crankshaft clockwise until the arrow on the sprocket points up (if it does not already).

At this point the engine is set up for ignition stroke at Cylinder 1

3. Install belt per the FSM

4. Install the distributor so that the  rotor points at Cylinder #1 on the cap with the distributor per the FSM with the adjustment bolt having play in either direction.

5.  Wire the spark plug wires per the FSM if they are not already that way.


At this point the engine should start. Adjust the distributor for 800 rpm at 10 degrees BTDC or threrabout per the FSM.

...back to our regularly-scheduled programming already in progress....    ;D
« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 04:51:42 AM by ack »
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Ack

'88 Samurai, '88.5 Samurai TT, '11 Ford Transit Connect XLT
Ack's FAQ  http://www.acksfaq.com
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2008, 01:37:26 PM »
Quote from: ack on January 09, 2008, 04:50:02 AM
1. Take the valve cover off and examine the position of the valves at cylinder #1. ........
  Replace the valve cover.


I always assumed that the FSM states to time it up at no.4 so you could just look down the oil filler hole to see if the valves were closed. I guess you could look to see if they were open but either way I don't believe that you need to remove the cover.

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Offline ack

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Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2008, 02:55:18 PM »
Quote from: ack on January 09, 2008, 04:50:02 AM
1. Take the valve cover off and examine the position of the valves at cylinder #1. ........
  Replace the valve cover.

Quote from: Rhinoman on January 09, 2008, 01:37:26 PM
I always assumed that the FSM states to time it up at no.4 so you could just look down the oil filler hole to see if the valves were closed. I guess you could look to see if they were open but either way I don't believe that you need to remove the cover.

Point well taken!

If you looked in the oil filler hole, you could see whether the valves were open or closed on #4.  Natually, the valves on #1 would be in the exact opposite state. 

Taking the cover off, while a little more difficult than using the "look down the filler hole" method, gives the first-time mechanic a better prespective on the matter.

I'll add that trick to the article anyway, Rhinoman!

I just hope that I have good light and warm weather for the pics on this one...


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Ack

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Ack's FAQ  http://www.acksfaq.com
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dicedaniels

Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2008, 06:31:04 PM »
i need a hug.
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phloop

Re: Need serious timing help
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2008, 07:17:26 PM »
Quote from: dicedaniels on January 09, 2008, 06:31:04 PM
i need a hug.

GROSS!!!! :o


And  Rhinoman, I did not see that part in the FSM concerning replacing the Tbelt. Lot's of other info on timing, Tbelt tension, setting the timing, installing the dist., and replacing the belt.
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