I'm going to go out and look at a 4 door Sidekick with SAS yota axles. It's a '94 automatic with 35" tires and otherwise stock running gear (t-case, trans etc), and he says it's still got the 4.1 gears in the diffs. He claims it's not a dog, but 4.1 diff gears doesn't seem right, since I've got 5.125 on my 29"ers and I can notice a power suck. Am I going to need to get taller gears? Kicker 3? What are you running, and how do you like it?

Unfortunately I know virtually nothing about yota running gear  :'(

Your defiantly going to need some lower gears.  I think thats all you can pretty much do with a non-divorced transfer case.

Amilla

Well, there's the kicker 3 option that will allow me to bolt-up a samurai t-case. Stock, they have 1.4:1 reduction, I could buy lower t-case gearing kit that will correct me to the 35" tires, or make up the difference in the diffs.

Or - I could just buy diff gears I suppose. I really have to run the numbers and see what the $$$ is. If it's close, I'm going dual t-case.... doublers are nice 

Whoops forgot about the kicker 3 have a sami case throwing in on it.
How much are the kicker3's going for these days?
That would the bee's knee's to have a kicker, turn them tires and have oodles of gears to choose from.

let us know how the kick looks!
better yet snag some pics.

Amilla

How much are the kicker3's going for these days?

$675, not including shipping t-cases back and forth, or the cost of the Sami T-case. But, I think it'll be worth it.

Looks like I need bump stops BAD....

4.10 sounds about right for Toyota Axles.  You can go all the way down to 5.71 but I hear you start to get breakage at that point.  But I'm not a Toy person.    Low Range Off Road has a list of gears available.

Low Range Off-Road Toyota Axle Page

With the automatic transmission you can afford to run higher gears then with the manual.  They have higher gears normally and it is harder to stall out on rocks. 

4.10 sounds about right for Toyota Axles.  You can go all the way down to 5.71 but I hear you start to get breakage at that point. 

4.10 is the most common one. there were a few oddball ones like 4.30 and 4.57 i beleive.
now, i have one of the first trail slayer kits, and let me tell you that there is NO option but the 5.71. it's the only ratio that will make the thing tolerable on the street. the myth that there not strong enough all depends who your talking too. if your talking to the 5500 LB toyota guys trying to run 40" tires because there new 350 conversion will turn them now, then yes they will be weak. but you talk to the 2500 LB suzuki guys that are trying to get hiway speed out of a 33" tire with there 100 hp motor, they'll tell you you'll be fine!

...I hear you start to get breakage at that point...

Peep this article. Looks like Yukon stuff is BEEFY:
http://www.gearinstalls.com/410suck.htm

If diff backlash isn't setup properly, it'll grenade no matter what gears are in there.

I'm not going all the way down to 5.71 'cause I'm doing Kicker 3. The reason for this is the sami gearing, it's not 1:1 like our kicks, it's 1.4 reduction stock. That'll get me pretty close to stock Hi & Low range - AND I'll still have the second t-case as a doubler if I want to go LOW LOW gear. If it still feels sluggish, I'll put in diff gears to make up the difference (4.88? forgot how to calc it) when I put in lockers (still reading about toy lockers, and what ones to go with).

Amilla - I remember reading that you got some lockers on your rig a while back. What are you using, and how do you like them?

I'm running 4.10 R&p's in my yota axles, with Aussie lockers...and have  6.5 T-case gears with 34" LTBs

I just got my rig setting up on all 4's, so I'm not 100% sure how my lockers work.
But my bro is running an Aussie locker in the front of his yota and it works awesome!  It makes hardly any noise and its pretty smooth.

As for the 5.71 R&p's all the people that i have talked to that are complain about them blowing, pretty much have there skinny peddle glued to the floor.  I have talked to a few people running 5.71's in kicks, and they said they have had no problems.

I'm sure you would be good with a 4.88 or 5.29 R&p depending on how much gearing you want.

Amilla

I'm trying to figure out the calcs, but with the kicker 3 in the mix... it's making it hard. I'm getting to the point where I might just guess and go 4.88??? I've read a lot about that Aussie locker, and people seem to swear by them. For $250 - I think I'm going to go for it. I need to get ready for the con before the 6th... going to cut it close!

I own a 87 Toyota with 33x12.5x15 tires, 15x10 wheels, 4.88s, 22RE 4cyl.

My truck runs great, and is re-geared for the size of tires.   My truck also gets about 22mpg, which is fantastic for the it's current setup.   And I will be the first one to tell you, that my truck is still a dog.

Even though I'm re-geared, going up slight inclines, I can still feel it suck the power out of it.

The following info is what you need to return a Toyota back to stock perfomance using larger tires.

5 speed
31s need 4.56s
33s need 4.88s
35s need 5.29s

Auto
31s need 4.88s
33s need 5.29s
35s need 5.71s (These gears are not deep enough to make back to stock)

Hope this gives you an idea on what a toyota would do.  I'm not to familiar what the performance would be like with toyota 4.10s and 35s hooked up behind a Tracker drivetrain.

Here is a link to a gearing chart I made a while back, it may help.

http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=11249.0


In the above link, if you replace the tracker transfer case with a samurai transfer case, it shows that 4.30 gears are needed for a Tracker Automatic and 35s to bring it back to stock performance.

Later
Ryan

That's the info I was looking for!!Thanks Kozaz.
At the risk of hijacking the thread, I have to say something. I have one of the rare '89 kicks with the carb'ed 1.3 and a 5 speed manual. Apparently it has the 5.63 diff gears. I say apparently because I have not visually checked the ratio. I also have a sammy t-case that I would like to use. If I followed your formulas correctly, I would have to run 38's in order to bring it back to stock gearing! I dont reall want to run anything bigger than a 33. I guess I would be o.k. with a 33, but I am currently driving this rig every day. About 30 miles a day round trip to work and home.

Kozaz, you said your truck is re-geared for your tires, but it is still a dog. Maybe the formula gets you mathmatically back to stock, but does not account for the effect of wind resistance or drag from the larger tires. I guess it is still sorta a guessing game on how much gearing is enough. Does this sound reasonable?

Maybe the formula gets you mathmatically back to stock, but does not account for the effect of wind resistance or drag from the larger tires.

You're very close. The issue is rotational mass. Rotational mass is evil. 10lbs of rotational mass can be like having 100-500 extra lbs in the vehicle (it's a leverage thing). Wind resistance play's it's part at freeway speeds, but it's mostly rotational mass that kills the MPG / power suck.

I figured some stuff out. Peep the tech here:
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,84500.0.html

I'm going to go out and look at a 4 door Sidekick with SAS yota axles. It's a '94 automatic with 35" tires and otherwise stock running gear (t-case, trans etc), and he says it's still got the 4.1 gears in the diffs. He claims it's not a dog,

Believe me, it's a dog.

I've got 5.83's in the diffs, and 33's, and the Gnewt has real issues on a hill.
But she's built for 4-lo-first (90:1), not highway speeds.

Yeah, it's a bit of a dog. I have a 5 speed 4-door on 29" tires, and was expecting it to be MUCH worse. It goes better than I thought it would - maybe it's the automatic?