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91 SJ410 Dead Zone

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Offline SafetyGuy

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91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« on: July 05, 2008, 03:00:46 PM »
I recently purchased a 1991 SJ410. I live in Western Washington and drove to the Spokane area (Eastern Washington) with the car trailer. When I test drove the 410 it ran fine, but I only drove it about 4 or 5 miles. I drove the 7 hours home and unloaded it the following morning. Drove it to my inlaws which is roughly 6 or 7 miles and ran fine.
When we were leaving there it would hardly run. It starts easily, but has a difficult time taking off. I have since discovered that it will idle fine and will run at open throttle. but there is a huge dead spot between idle and full throttle.
I have replaced the plugs, cap, rotor, fuel filter, checked the timing and it is at 10 degrees. I was told that the rig sat in storage from 98 to 07. So I figured there may be water in the fuel. I added a bottle of gas dryer which seemed to help a little (or I think).
Driving home from work on Thursday it ran fairly well with only a small throttle dead spot. A woman in front of me stooped for a cat crossing the road which caused me to get on the brakes pretty hard. As soon as I went to take off, it would hardly run again.
I an sort of leaning towards the 02 sensor.
Does anyone have any other ideas it could be?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 03:03:10 PM by SafetyGuy »
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Offline ack

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2008, 06:26:39 PM »
Okay, I'm gonna bite here...

a '91 SJ410?

I didn't know that they sold SJ-410s in North America in '91.

A true SJ-410 has a 1 liter 4-cylinder engine and a few other interesting items like a drum-brake style emergency brake and a lower-geared transfer case.  Many Samurai owners install 410 grilles on their 413s for the "cool" effect.

That said, what kind of fuel system does it have?.  Does it have an electric or a mechanical fuel pump?  Have you changed the fuel filter?  Are the vacuum hoses (if carbureted) in good shape?  Have you checked the grounding wire on the distributor - or grounding wires in general?

These are common problems with SJ-413 (Samurai) trucks that have been setting around unused for a while. Possibly the same goes for the SJ-410.

I hope that this helps!
Ack

'88 Samurai, '88.5 Samurai TT, '11 Ford Transit Connect XLT
Ack's FAQ  http://www.acksfaq.com

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Offline SafetyGuy

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2008, 06:40:06 PM »
This is the first Suzuki I have owned and bought it as a Samurai. There is a badge just behind the lower corner of the door that says SJ410. There is no where on the vehicle that says Samurai.
The registration says Ser/Body is SAMCV and Model/BT is SM/UT.
It is a two wheel drive, five speed, 1.3L Fuel Injected (throttle body).
Ground wire to the distributor is good
Electric fuel pump (in tank) which the seller said he had replaced
I have changed the fuel filter
Everything seems to be in good shape and securely mounted.
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Offline ack

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2008, 09:03:05 PM »
Hmm...  a curiousity fer sure!

I am betting that this vehicle started out life as a SJ-410 then received an engine transplant.  The factory did not build 410s wirth the 1.3 engine.  410s are 410s because the engine is a 1 liter.  That's what the "10" in SJ410 means.  It might also be that the Previous Owner liked the badge and stuck it in on the truck. 

I am not trying to be a weisenheimer here.  What you have posted here just does not add up - and that can be a good starting point for finding and fixing your truck's problems.

One thing that you can do to help clear up this mystery is to find the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) and run it at the following website:

http://www.decodethis.com/

The VIN is typically found on a plate mounted on the side of the dash at the door jamb on the driver's side.

This decoder will tell you once and for all exactly what you have purchased irregardless of what the State Registration Title document (which I assume is what you are referring to) says.


If the filter is new, you are satisfied that the electrical system is properly grounded, there are no injector problems, then it might be a flaky Engine Control Module (ECM).

The first thing that you need to do is to get the part number off the ECM (mounted under the dash by the driver's side door) and get in contact with Surly at the Zuwharrie.com website:

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/index.php?board=12.0

Surly is the ECM God and can probably tell you exactly what year Samurai the ECM came out of and can repair it if you would like. just do a search for "Surly" then send him a Personal Message (PM) describing your situation.

BTW, 2-wheel drive SJs are very rare!

I Hope that this helps!
Ack

'88 Samurai, '88.5 Samurai TT, '11 Ford Transit Connect XLT
Ack's FAQ  http://www.acksfaq.com

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Offline SafetyGuy

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2008, 09:54:28 PM »
I went to the link you supplied and entered the VIN number. The responce was "The VIN entered is unrecognized. Please check your entry and try again" which I did a couple of times and always got the same responce..
Now I am getting curious about what I really have.

I said it was a 1.3L. I am only assuming it is a 1.3L because it is listed on a sticker under the hood.
Is there a way to visibly identify the difference between a 1.0L and a 1.3L?

The filter is new, it is throttle body injected so there are no injectors, and as far as I can tell, all connections are good.

If I supplied pictures is there a way to identify which body this is?
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Offline ack

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2008, 11:11:05 PM »
I went to the link you supplied and entered the VIN number. The responce was "The VIN entered is unrecognized. Please check your entry and try again" which I did a couple of times and always got the same responce..
Now I am getting curious about what I really have.

I said it was a 1.3L. I am only assuming it is a 1.3L because it is listed on a sticker under the hood.
Is there a way to visibly identify the difference between a 1.0L and a 1.3L?

The filter is new, it is throttle body injected so there are no injectors, and as far as I can tell, all connections are good.

If I supplied pictures is there a way to identify which body this is?

The VIN decoder should work - it worked for my '88 Samurai VIN.  Use lowercase characters and don't allow any spaces at the beginning.

The engine is marked with it's displacement.  You can find the displacement value embossed on a flat surface on the exhaust (driver's) side of the engine where the transmission attaches.  If the engine is a 410, the displacement should read 970cc.  If the engine is a 1.3, it should read either 1296cc or 1324cc.

The 410 and the 413/Samurai bodies are almost identical.  The only major difference is the grille.  The 410 has a vertically-slotted metal grille.  The SJ413/Samurai grille is plastic.  As I mentioned earlier, the other major differences is the transfer case. Yours will have one even though it is a two wheel drive unit. The SJ410 has an emergency brake in the form of a drum brake attached to the rear output of the transfer case.  On the SJ413/Samurai the emergency brake lever is attached to a cable that runs to both rear brake housings.

Finally, you will notice that I refer to the SJ413 as a SJ413/Samurai.  The SJ413 had a number of names in various countries around the world. In North America it was called the Samurai.
Ack

'88 Samurai, '88.5 Samurai TT, '11 Ford Transit Connect XLT
Ack's FAQ  http://www.acksfaq.com

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Offline mrhawk

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2008, 12:36:58 AM »
Only american spec Samurais were manufactured as two wheel drive.

Most likely a standard samurai with grill and badges from a 410.

Best way to check the chassis is if the front shackle mounts on the frame is in line with the frame, then it's a 410, if the mounts are offset outwards it's a Samurai.

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Offline ack

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2008, 07:48:28 AM »
What mrhawk sez!

Thanks!
Ack

'88 Samurai, '88.5 Samurai TT, '11 Ford Transit Connect XLT
Ack's FAQ  http://www.acksfaq.com

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2008, 08:48:59 AM »
410 engine has ally rocker cover, side draught carb and iron block. 413 has steel rocker cover, downdraught carb  or TBI and ally block. I've never heard of an injected 410.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 08:57:22 AM by Rhinoman »
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

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Offline SafetyGuy

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2008, 10:54:42 AM »
1. The E-brake is on the rear axle
2. Embossed on the left side of the engine is 1298 CM3
3. Aluminum head and block
4. Metal rocker cover
5. Offset shackles
6. Horizontal slotted plastic grill

I have added some pictures to help in trying to sort this out.
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Offline SafetyGuy

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2008, 10:55:50 AM »
Here's one more picture.
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2008, 12:43:10 PM »
The indicators are positioned where they would be on an early 410 or 413. The bonnet is a 413/Sammy item. It has a servo too, unlike the early 410.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 12:45:47 PM by Rhinoman »
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

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Offline SafetyGuy

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2008, 01:20:03 PM »
So are you saying it might be a 413 rather than a 410 and what about the embossing on the engine where it says 1298 CM3 instead of 1296 CC?
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Offline Drone637

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2008, 04:12:24 PM »
Yep, it's an SJ-413 aka Samurai.  :)

The SJ-410 only has a 970cc engine.  :P
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Offline SafetyGuy

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Re: 91 SJ410 Dead Zone
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2008, 04:20:55 PM »
Thank you all for the information. It is good to know which model I have, but I still have the performance problem.
I do not have a tach so I do not know what RPM this is happening at but would say from around 1000 RPM to maybe 2500 -3000 RPM there is a dead spot. Runs pretty good at a idle and seems to run good wide open.
I was leaning towards the O2 Sensor but someone else said it may be the ECM. Is there any other ideas?
If you Can Not Do It Safely, It's Not Worth Doing!