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Locking Differential identification

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GRVIT

Locking Differential identification
« on: September 27, 2004, 08:15:02 AM »
Three days now I m trying to learn more about the various types of differentials and how they work.
The main question is this :
How can we understand what type of differential we have in the rear axle for example ?

1.Open differential
 if you put the truck on stands with both wheels airborn and try to rotate one,the other wheel rotates at the opposite direction

2.Locker  
Same example ,if we try to rotate one, the other wheel rotates at the same direction,then we have a locker.

3.LSD but Friction Sensing not Torsen type.
  I guess we ll have the same result as in 2 case.
Very simple till now.

If something of the above is wrong ,please  correct me.

I cant figure out what happens in the following case :

What happens if we have a Torsen type LSD in the axle?  (which acts like an open diff when one wheel is airborn)
I mean ,how can someone check what type of differential the axle has ? And especially in the case of Torsen type LSD ?

« Last Edit: September 27, 2004, 08:22:39 AM by GRVIT »
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Offline Zukipilot

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Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2004, 10:44:35 AM »
From how I understand it.
1- open diff= equal traction to tires both pull but when one tire looses traction al of the force is directed to the non traction wheel causing it to spin while the solid planted wheel does nothing,

2- Limited slip: acts like 1 untill a certain amount of spin in the loose traction wheel is achieved, then the friction plated engague allowing traction to the both wheels(to a point) if to much pressure is applied the plates release causing the limited slip to act like 1 again.

3- auto locker= even wheel travel on both wheels the locker is UNLocked and while turnning with no pressure applied to the gas (Coasting while turning) it still acts open. As soon as pressure is applied to the diff with un even wheel spin the locker gears are engagued causing the axle to LOCK solid in to a 'positraction' efect untill the traction is even again.

4- manual air/electric lockers= open diff (1) untill the switch is flipped to engague. Once engagued the axle is LOCKEd solid( both wheels turning the same, untll the locker is manually dis engagued.

Zig
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Zukipilot
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GRVIT

Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2004, 04:52:27 PM »
Yes ,yes .But these  are known.Its my fault.I should be more specific in the first post.Sorry. :-[
I m reffering to the case that we get a new truck and the tech specs as well as the salesman tells us that the truck has a Limited Slip Differential in lets say the Rear Axle.How can we check if this is true ?
Cause there are examples of salesmen that say what they think the truck has,without knowing it for sure.And the result is to get a truck with an LSD in the rear axle,only to verify later that its not true.It has happened to a friend of mine.
Mitsubishi Shogun Pinin 2.0-the factory specs and salesperson said that its has a VCU center locking diff and a helical LSD (that is Torsen type) in the rear axle.But when my friend rotated one of the rear wheels,the other turned at the opposite direction,excactly like an open diff.The thing is,is it an open diff or just the Torsen type LSD acts like that when we do this kind of checking ?
What are the ways to check this ?
Thats the reason  ,I mentioned the example of the truck with the rear axle airborn.If we have an open diff,when we try to rotate one wheel at one direction,the other wheel will rotate at the opposite direction.If we have a locker,they will both turn at the same direction.Even if we have a Friction type LSD ,we ll have the same result.(I ve checked it,cause in front I have an LSD 75%)

But I dont know if this experiment also applies in the Torsen LSD.Cause the Torsen (helical LSD) operates like an LSD as long as the wheels are on the ground.If one wheel gets airborn,they act as open diffs.
SO by which way can we check it ? (in the case for example we buy a new truck,and we dont know what kind of diffs it has)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2004, 04:59:36 PM by GRVIT »
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2004, 05:07:08 PM »
Stick one wheel in the mud and floor it

Wild
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GRVIT

Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2004, 05:49:58 PM »
 :)  Yeah,thanks.Or I can just go somewhere quite enough ,with no traffic,drop some oil (no rain the last 2 months here)  in front of one of the rear wheels ,and again floor it....
I was looking for an easier method.... In the garage lets say.....
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2004, 06:03:11 PM »
OK wet the floor down    ;D

LOL

Wild
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Offline Zukipilot

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Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2004, 11:15:47 PM »
I would 'take it for a test drive' OFF ROAD. Get in the dirt, lock it in, and nail it ;D If the sales man want to sell the vehicle he wont mind you getting proof that it is equiled as he says it is.
You could also do a search in the internet for information on the vehicle you are looking at. What make/year/ model is it?

Zig
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Offline jagular7

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Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2004, 12:46:36 AM »
With truck in the garage, the lsd will act as a locker going one way (tire rotation). A locker will release if you grab a tire while it's spinning (with no input to the ds). Spin the tires by hand with both tires off the ground. Both tires shall spin in same direction, locker and lsd. Open, opposite tire will sping opposite or you could just hold it still.
With a locker, you could start to spin the tires one way, then stop one by hand and spin the opposite and you should here is un-lock.
LSD, you won't be able to break the pressure of the clutches by hand, unless the lsd is no longer a streetable lsd.
For a spool, both tires spin same direction, stop the same, etc.
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Offline jagular7

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Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2004, 12:47:37 AM »
Only other way to 'check' is to pull the axles, get the diff out and check the differential case which the ring gear is bolted to.
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Offline ed oorklep

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Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2004, 12:49:59 AM »
Shouldn't the T-case be in neutral to turn both wheels in the same direction???? otherwise you have to turn around almost the complete drivetrain... seems pretty hard to me.... ???
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GRVIT

Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2004, 01:41:54 AM »
Quote
Only other way to 'check' is to pull the axles, get the diff out and check the differential case which the ring gear is bolted to.


;D ;D ;D
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GRVIT

Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2004, 01:44:52 AM »
Quote
With truck in the garage, the lsd will act as a locker going one way (tire rotation).
...........
LSD, you won't be able to break the pressure of the clutches by hand, unless the lsd is no longer a streetable lsd.
quote]
Yes.This is true for Clutch type LSD's.But what about Torsen type LSD ? It will behave the same with a Clutch type LSD ?
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GRVIT

Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2004, 01:53:58 AM »
Quote
I would 'take it for a test drive' OFF ROAD. Get in the dirt, lock it in, and nail it ;D If the sales man want to sell the vehicle he wont mind you getting proof that it is equiled as he says it is.
You could also do a search in the internet for information on the vehicle you are looking at. What make/year/ model is it?
Zig


I ve done research,but I also had this truck 3 years ago.I know it.I just could't check that it had an LSD on then.It has a VCU center locking differential also.And the rear LSD should not be more than 40%.
All the tech specs say that the rear LSD in the 2.0 GDI Shogun Pinin (99-now),is standard. One the other hand ,a friend of mine ,told me that when he rotates the rear wheel at one direction,the other rotates at the oposite direction.This is a sign of an open diff.Or its maybe for a Torsen type LSD too ? dont think so....
An other strange thing is that on the rear axle housing
there's a sticker which says "HERICAL LSD" .....I didnt say Helical   o.k  ?  It is written on that sticker "Herical" not Helical.....  well   I have never heared of a HERICAL type LSD....What about you ?
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Offline keith

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Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2004, 03:04:40 AM »
Quote


I ve done research,but I also had this truck 3 years ago.I know it.I just could't check that it had an LSD on then.It has a VCU center locking differential also.And the rear LSD should not be more than 40%.
All the tech specs say that the rear LSD in the 2.0 GDI Shogun Pinin (99-now),is standard. One the other hand ,a friend of mine ,told me that when he rotates the rear wheel at one direction,the other rotates at the oposite direction.This is a sign of an open diff.Or its maybe for a Torsen type LSD too ? dont think so....
An other strange thing is that on the rear axle housing
there's a sticker which says "HERICAL LSD" .....I didnt say Helical   o.k  ?  It is written on that sticker "Herical" not Helical.....  well   I have never heared of a HERICAL type LSD....What about you ?


My 02 Mitsu Montero Sport (Challenger) has the sticker on the diff that says 'Helical LSD'  On the sport's only the limited (top of the line) model came standard with the LSD.  Let me know what you find out about yours.  I wondered when I got it if it had LSD or not.  I was relieved when I saw the sticker.  I have not tried lifting the back end and spinning the tires though.
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GRVIT

Re: Locking Differential identification
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2004, 04:46:28 AM »
Quote


My 02 Mitsu Montero Sport (Challenger) has the sticker on the diff that says 'Helical LSD'  On the sport's only the limited (top of the line) model came standard with the LSD.  Let me know what you find out about yours.  I wondered when I got it if it had LSD or not.  I was relieved when I saw the sticker.  I have not tried lifting the back end and spinning the tires though.

Well I just found a friend with a Shogun pinin 2.0 GDI .I looked at the rear axle housing and there was the sticker......  
We did the following: Trans.cae in Neutral, I turned oine wheel slowly ,the other one was not moving at all.Also I could hear a noise in the diff ,something like resistance....cant really tell..
Then we put 4th gear and did the same.Now the other wheel rotated at the opposite direction... ???
I m not sure but its strange.If I was looking for a Friction type LSD (clutch type) then now I could say its an open diff.But since I m looking for Torsen type LSD,that is Torque sensing,maybe this kind of testing is not the appropriate one for this type of LSD cause there is no torque transfer.I dont know...
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