OK, this is not my first break bleed, but it's driving me nuts. I know I have air in the lines, low pedal, pump it and they work fine. My problem is that when trying to bleed the brakes, the only time the pedal will go to the floor is on the left rear bleeder. I work at an auto restoration shop(bookkeeper) and our mechanic is trying to tell me that this is how the system is with the LSPV. I highly doubt that I should have to pump up the brakes for them to work, especially since I never had to before I replaced the rear brake hose. I tried one of those vaccuum type things, don't waste your money on one, I had no brakes after that! No matter how much I try the pump 'em up method, it just doesn't bleed right. Every other vehicle I've done will let the pedal go right to the floor no matter which bleeder you open. Any ideas on what's up?

Looking at a FSM... it starts out with
"Bleed the hydraulic brake system in the following sequence:"
1. left front wheel
2. LSPV (for non-ABS)
3. Right front caliper
4. Left front caliper

If air enters the hydraulic brake system due to low brake fluid, bleed the system at the four bleeder valves.

Manual bleeding

1. ensure engine is off (what a great idea!)
2. press brake pedal several times in order to remove the vacumm system reserve
3. clean around reservoir cap
4. remove reservoir cap
5. fill reservoir with brake fluid.  keep reservoir at least half full during bleeding.
6. install reservoir cap
7. remove the bleeder cap
8. Attach clear tubing to bleeder valve. Submerge the other end in clear container partially filled with brake fluid.
9. have someone press the brake pedal several times, then hold it fully pressed
10 with the brake pedal fully pressed, loosen the bleeder valve about 1/2 turn.  the brake pedal should fall all the way to the floor as the fluid flows out the bleeder
11 close bleeder (66.4 lb in on wheel cyclinder)  (75.4 for caliper bleeder)
12 have the second person slowly release thepedal
13 repeat the procedure until air bubbles no longer appear in the clear liquid
14 install bleeder cap
15 repeat above procedure at all bleeder valves that require bleeding
16 replenish brake fluid in master cyclinder to the max mark and install cap
17 pump the brake pedal
18 inspect hydraulic system for leaks
19 inspect the brake pedal feel for sponginess and the brake indicator for indication of an unbalanced pressure.  repeat the entire bleeding procedure in order to correct either of these conditions.

Pressure bleeding
Must be diaphragm type and must have a rubber diaphragm between the air supply and the brake fluid....
         
Don't know if this info helps with your problem you're having or not, but for what it is worth...

One problem I remember on another car with a solid rear axle - the air collected at the high point in the line at the rear, and did not want to move down to the wheel cylinders.

What helped was jacking the rear of the vehicle as high as it could go.  Then, instead of just a few pumps on the pedal before opening the bleeder, give thirty or so really hard pushes - try to get the pedal through the floor!  Then hold down on the last push and open the bleeder.  Did that four or five times on both rears, and it worked - perfect brakes.  That was after the professionals had given up and said that the spongy feel was the best they could do.

Worth a try!

Thanks guys, I bled the brakes just as nprecon posted, about 20 times, still spongy. I'll try jacking up the rear today. Any idea why the pedal won't go to the floor on either of the front calipers, or on the LSPV? Even taking the bleeders all the way out doesn't change it. In my FSM it has a fluid pressure check, is there a way to check without the special tools they have listed, or shoud I just take it to a dealership and have them check it? We do have some pressure gauge stuff at the shop, but I have no faith in our mechanic, I know more than he does. He can't even set points, I'd have fired him on his second day!

could an improper replacement part cause this error??

I leave brakes to my mechanic since they are for safety

All I replaced was the rear brake hose. There are no leaks anywhere on it. I must have bled this thing about 100 times today, all different variations of ways. I'm thinking it might be that LSPV thing as that's the only thing I know nothing about. Right now I'm leaning towards a rear disc conversion and replace everything( ???wondering how that kit for the 68 Firebird would fit ). For now I'm just gonna drive the damn minivan, God I hate that thing! It doesn't help being laidoff, other than I have all day to work on it and still have access to the garage. I'm working on the Firebird tomorrow, kind of fed up with the Tracker right now.

If you only replaced a rear hose, chances are the air is only in the rear, and the method I suggested could do it.

I did try lifting the back when bleeding, it did nothing. I'll try it again, but not today. Gotta get the motor in the bird.

Well, I give up on this. I messed with everything I can think of. The dealership says they'll diagnose the prob for me for $50. It'll be dropped off Wednesday. I wish I'd have caleed them sooner, $50, I damn near spent that for break fluid!!!!

I'm told it's a $400 LSPV that needs to be replaced. I'm going to a junk yard, but only after my other post is answered.

who installed the new parts? if it was the dealer i would take it back and say fix it, if it was you, you still have not bled the system right.....

most shops have a pressure bleeder, it bolts to the brake res tank and feeds pressurized brake fluid into the system, all you have to do it go to each bleed nipple and and wait for all the air to come out, no need to pump or anything.......

I took it back from the dealer after they failed to get pressure also. I put a new mastercylinder and a junk yard LSPV on it and got worse brakes than I started with. This was after I had the dealer diagnose it as a mastercylinder. I then took it back to the dealer and paid $987 for them to put a new mastercylinder on it. Still wasn't the problem, they were atleast good enough to agree that I wasn't going to pay for that as it didn't fix thre problem. I had told them it was a new master and didn't want to spend more $ on another one. They told me I installed it wrong and "guaranteed it was the problem. They did stand behind their words, give em credit there. So then I figured they earned the right to just fix it. $1172 bill later, still no brakes. We settled on $400 because the brakes still don't work and I'm not just going to keep throwing money at it. I'm done, the dealer can't tell me why I have no brakes, and at this point, I really don't care. I bled the brakes in every way you can think of, it doesn't help. I'm going back to old school technology. 1974 Jimmy 2 miles away might just come home with me tomorrow! Maybe he'll trade!

I hate to hear that.  It's got to be something far more simple as you've replaced most of the major components to the brake system.  For what it's worth not all dealers or shops actually spend the money to purchase the specialty tools the manufacturer identifies as unique to a certain vehicle.  A lot of the specialty tools you can work around but some are essential (like the socket for the front axle hub bearings).  Hell, I'm not even convinced all dealerships and shops have people who are actually trained or have experience working on the vehicles they sell or service anymore.  For example... "you didn't replace the master cyclinder correctly... they could and they guranteed that's the fix...".   I am impressed they at least didn't try to break it off in you to settle up when they didn't fix the problem.  That at least elevates them to an honest shop which is difficult to come across nowadays.    

For instance, something as simple as changing brake pads... I've done Jeeps, Hondas, Fiestas, Chevy trucks, Trackers...but when I went to change the rears on a Ford Focus I had bought... suddenly you needed a unique tool to compress the piston (rotates the piston as it compresses) and if you didn't use that tool you ended up binding the caliper and frying the new pads along with the rotor... and the bearing to boot.  

The one issue that strikes me here is YOU couldn't find the problem... and they, the one shop (dealership) you went to couldn't finid the problem.  Sounds like it's time for a different technician to look at the symptoms and what's been done to date to find the smoking gun.  Hell, how much more expensive could it be?  You've already replaced damned near everything in the systemi!!

Gurantee once the problem is identified... you'll never have that problem again... plus you can share the fix with the forum so if we ever encounter the problem, we'll be wiser.  These damned trucks are just too reliable to be giviing up the ghost too soon.

I really don't have the cash to keep throwing at the same problem. There is one more dealer I could tow it to, but I have never heard a good word about the place. I work(ed) at a restoration shop, and both mechanics have looked at it. All anybody can keep telling me is that I must still have air in the lines. I've tried pumping to bleed, gravity ( just break the bleeders and let it flow), I tried pumping fluid from the bleeders up the the master cylinder, and tried pressure from the master down. I don't know how else to try, and I really don't want to pay a few hundred more to have another person try the same things. It'll sit behind the garage until I save up some more cash to throw at it. I did like the vehicle until this problem, but this is getting to me.

OK, so today I took the master cylinder off to bench bleed it and stert from scratch. I had 2 ASE mechanics over so I figured today waas the day to do it. Bench bleed went great. Installed it and let Dave and Forrest go at it. About an hour later they decided that the mc was shot. So off it came for inspection. It was blead again, then Dave put plugs in the ports instead of the hoses that come with the new mc's. With the plugs in, you couldn't push the plunger at all. Both guys agreed that this meant the mc was good because it help pressure just fine. Back in the Tracker it went, plugs still in place. They started one line at a time and bled as they went(they used the pressure bleeder I rigged up). Had great pedal up until they connected the last line, then nothing. We played with the order we connected the lines and it didn't matter which of the three lines in the front were the last to be connected, we always lost pressure. We tried many different positions for the LSPV tention with no difference. In the end, they gave up and just left on port plugged so I can have more than just the e brake. That's two more ASE mechanics besides the 2 at work and the dealership guys. Dave says he would solce it with Toy SAS, the wife says no.