8v and 16v comparison? AND 16v upgrades

yellow2000S/R

152
2
Gender:

8v and 16v comparison? AND 16v upgrades

« on: April 18, 2010, 08:05:36 PM »

8v and 16v comparison:
Do the bottom ends interchange? I'm looking into getting a bottom end to get machined so my 16v Tracker isn't off the road as long. I have bad blowby issues and am going to get oversize pistons regardless as well as all new bearings, rings, and seals.

I can find 8v engines easy but 16v are rare in the junkyards and u-pulls I go to.

IF they are interchangeable, is there anything special between the two like oil squirters or anything? I'm still not extremely familiar with these vehicles.

16v Upgrades:
As far as upgraded internals go, are there any readily availabe? I'm not talking something like the d16 crank swap needing the journals machined and rehardened, I'm talking bolt-in rods with the correct length and pistons that will work. Something that will be friendly to higher hp.

This also goes for the crank. Is the 16v crank as delicate as the 8v being hollow in the journals for the rods? I read 250hp is the MAX limit and really pushing it. I don't want to spend hundreds on internals and machine work just to have the crank fail.

Logged

wildgoody

8134
67
Gender:
Turbocharged 150HP 1.6L 8V 93MPH 1/4 mile

Re: 8v and 16v comparison? AND 16v upgrades

« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2010, 08:57:07 PM »

Bottom ends are interchangeable, the 16V crank has double counter weights
on each throw, where the 8V has a single on one side, so a 16V crank should
be a little smoother and rev higher with less distortion, tho how high do you
need to spin? 6-7K RPM is enough in my book.

Pistons from a 8V engine will not work with a 16V head, no valve pockets.

The 16V oil pump is different, has a cut out for the Crank Sensor, as well
as the pan has a U at the front for this also, so order your gaskets to fit the
engine you are building, tho all the head gaskets will work between at 1.3
and 1.6 engines that came in the Track/Kicks, don't know about the DOHC
1.3 engine tho.

Forged Honda pistons from a 1.6 engine will work, and are available from SRP racing
pistons, but check the CC of the head and the dish in the piston to calculate
the CR correctly, I got a set I thought would be 8.5:1 for the turbo engine
and they turned out to be about the same as stock CR, but work fine, just had
to machine off the crowns because the compression height was a little too tall

Hope this helps

Wild

Logged

Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

Drone637

8121
116
Gender:
Evil Cow

Re: 8v and 16v comparison? AND 16v upgrades

« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2010, 11:21:14 PM »

If your going to swap engines I think you are just as well off going to a 2.0L from an 8v as you are going to a 16v. Your going to have to replace all of your electrics anyway but with the 2.0L you are picking up another 20 hp or so.

Aftermarket 4x4 have half of a write-up on doing the 2.0 swap. I believe they sell most of the kit as well.

Logged

96 Geo Tracker, x-SJ-410, x-White Rabbit, x-Project Trouble
Crawlers NorthWest
x-Trouble Racing

wildgoody

8134
67
Gender:
Turbocharged 150HP 1.6L 8V 93MPH 1/4 mile

Re: 8v and 16v comparison? AND 16v upgrades

« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2010, 11:24:40 PM »

He's just rebuilding a 16V engine and wants a core to rebuild first
so the truck isn't down for a long time during the rebuild process

Wild

Logged

Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

yellow2000S/R

152
2
Gender:

Re: 8v and 16v comparison? AND 16v upgrades

« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 01:08:24 AM »

Quote from: wildgoody on April 18, 2010, 11:24:40 PM

He's just rebuilding a 16V engine and wants a core to rebuild first
so the truck isn't down for a long time during the rebuild process

Wild

Correct

Logged

Drone637

8121
116
Gender:
Evil Cow

Re: 8v and 16v comparison? AND 16v upgrades

« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2010, 01:59:49 PM »

Ah, I thought he was looking at doing a swap of the top end after as well. My bad.

Logged

96 Geo Tracker, x-SJ-410, x-White Rabbit, x-Project Trouble
Crawlers NorthWest
x-Trouble Racing

wildgoody

8134
67
Gender:
Turbocharged 150HP 1.6L 8V 93MPH 1/4 mile

Re: 8v and 16v comparison? AND 16v upgrades

« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2010, 07:59:56 PM »

The only major change would be the crank, and I'm not sure there's
any real difference as far as running, if you were going to push 9,000
RPM and 300 HP I would go a different route.

I ran the turbo on the 8V stock bottom end for several years with
no bottom end problems, I did melt down a piston, but that was
my bad on the mixture tuning

I think you could do a stock 16V piston in a honed bore, freshen up
the bearings, new oil pump, rings and rebuild the head, as if it's worn
it won't last with the new increased compression of the rings.

could be done in a few days, depending on the head work time.

Logged

Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

Skyhiranger

3734
122
I don't buy, what I can build

Re: 8v and 16v comparison? AND 16v upgrades

« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2010, 08:10:10 PM »

Quote from: wildgoody on April 18, 2010, 08:57:07 PM

Bottom ends are interchangeable, the 16V crank has double counter weights
on each throw, where the 8V has a single on one side.
The cranks in the 8Vs changed around 92ish or so. I think the counterweights is what changed...they added more.

Pistons from a 8V engine will not work with a 16V head, no valve pockets.
There are valve pockets in 8V pistons...but just 2 per piston. And I am sure I have read where people have used an 8V block with a 16V head (or vice versa), without changing pistons (it does turn it into an interference engine though, I believe).

The 16V oil pump is different, has a cut out for the Crank Sensor, as well
as the pan has a U at the front for this also, so order your gaskets to fit the
engine you are building, tho all the head gaskets will work between at 1.3
and 1.6 engines that came in the Track/Kicks, don't know about the DOHC
1.3 engine tho.
92-95 16V engines don't have crank sensors at the front of the engine....so no cutout in the oil pan and no difference in oil pumps.

Logged

Tracker and Sidekick parts for sale.....PM me with your wants/needs.

yellow2000S/R

152
2
Gender:

Re: 8v and 16v comparison? AND 16v upgrades

« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2010, 10:00:22 PM »

Quote from: wildgoody on April 19, 2010, 07:59:56 PM

I think you could do a stock 16V piston in a honed bore, freshen up
the bearings, new oil pump, rings and rebuild the head, as if it's worn
it won't last with the new increased compression of the rings.

could be done in a few days, depending on the head work time.

Head is already done and installed.

I didn't notice much increase in performance and my mileage is still 18mpg range so I did a compression test to find my rings are shot. 90, 92, 75, 107 are the results. Dropped some oil in to seal around the rings some to verify it wasnt my "new" head and the numbers increased 30-45 psi.

Head was milled .015", seats and valves machined, all new seals, and I PnP'd the runners to the gaskets (1-2mm steps from IM to head then head to exhaust mani). I blended all the way down the ports and the long side radius to smooth it to the hardened valve seats as factory there is a 1-1.5mm lip where the seat chokes off the port. I also smoothed out the short side radius slightly and removed casting marks where I didn't touch.

Intake mani was also taken apart and completelly cleaned, port matched the center of the runners where it bolts together and removed all roughness inside the plenum and runners. Have it all flowing to a 2" mandrel bent exhaust starting at the end of the manifold to a high flow cat and a magnaflow muffler.

Logged

wildgoody

8134
67
Gender:
Turbocharged 150HP 1.6L 8V 93MPH 1/4 mile

Re: 8v and 16v comparison? AND 16v upgrades

« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2010, 11:21:14 PM »

Sweet, looks good, you have all the hard stuff done.
Go get a block and get it rebuilt, you can install the engine
short block without a hoist if the head is off, otherwise the
whole thing is just too heavy to lift by hand.

once you have the short block done, pull the head on the installed
engine, get the rest out, drop in the new short block and install the
head and manifolds, a week end or less should be all it takes, and that
would be working easy on it.

I have a 16V head that I have done the same treatment you did with
the port matching and cleaned up the valve shrouding as well as the
rough casting spots in the runners, I also added stainless exhaust valves
in prep for the next stage in the turbo buildup, about 200 HP at 9 PSI
is what I expected to get, but now I'm not so sure I'm going to put
the turbo back on the engine, SMOG Nazis here in California are making it
no fun.

And now there is a gas station with E-85 I could run in the turbo Kick,
that would be an awsome fuel for power and lots of boost

Logged

Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.