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Overheating (warning long post!)

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Offline bentparts

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Overheating (warning long post!)
« on: June 20, 2010, 05:21:33 AM »
I've been having some overheating issues with the turboTracker. At the Zuwharrie it began when following a group going very slow, low range, the temps would start to climb. I did have the fan on, but I also was running the AC occasionally. Yeah, I know, AC while crawling? But it was miserabely hot and humid, and with the tintop I wasn't getting much airflow in the cab so I would run the AC just to cool off a bit. It got hot enough a couple of times to boil coolant out the overflow. I did refill, and all seemed fine.
When I got home and got most of the NC muddy clay cleaned off the rig, I wanted to check the cooling system. I drained all the coolant I could from the radiator, pulled the thermostat and checked it in boiling water to see if it was opening correctly, which it was. Put everything back together and started the engine, turned the heater on high, and refilled the system, which took about a gallon and a half of coolant. ( Summer mix of water and water wetter.)
I let the thing run for like 15 minutes with the radiator cap off looking for it to circluate coolant, and it just sat there. No movement of the coolant.
It did get up to normal temp, about halfway up the guage, but still no movement of coolant in the radiator. Took it for a drive, mostly around the burbs, never overheated, guage read normal. Got back home and parked it, and heard gurgling from the radiator, not overflowing, but sounding like it was getting pretty hot in there.
Any ideas? New water pump and timing belt last fall, hoses all OK. Radiator looks pretty clean inside, from the top anyway. timing retarded a couple degrees for the turbo.
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Bobthebiker

Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 06:14:55 AM »
only thing I can think of is the impeller is spinning free of the driveshaft in your water pump.   I'd just put a set screw on it and call it a day if it is.
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Offline ecoast

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Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2010, 08:01:51 AM »
Has the radiator ever been replaced? If not, I'm willing to bet you have low flow.

My rig is 1.6 8v Samuari transplant; when I got it it was a non-runner. After rewire, it would run, but overheat.

So, I went down this road w/a $9.99 HF IR thermometer. No guessing.

Checked thermo, like you. (making sure the 'tittie' is facing correctly when re-installing, use OE type)

Waited to see flow, like you. nada

Swapped in a spare (used) radiator- same


So, $106 later, rockauto.com, new rad. Still could not 'see' much flow, BUT- no more overheat.
That's a smaller Sammi rad on the 1.6.

When wheeling like we were, are you making much boost? I'm guessing not, unless you're on the gas.
Should the AC cause overheat? I don't really think so...

The fact that's it's ticking hot after a nieborhood run indicates low flow, or low air flow, so it can only be:
rad
pump
fan/shroud

With the HF IR, you can point at gooseneck and SEE when thermo opens.
You can point at rad and SEE where hot spot/low flow.

For a hunnert bucks (assuming it's NEVER been renewed), I'd try the radiiator.
You can always send it back for credit.


The only other thing I can think of, and not knowing your turbo rig, is if hot exhaust can get to intake via plumbing? Longshot; thinking 'out loud'....

 
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2010, 08:07:43 AM »
My vote is for a crappy pump.
Put the hose into a bucket of water, fill the engine
through the top hose and have someone start it with
the thermostat out, if the pump is working it will blow
gobs of water, and if not, well now you know

Wild
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Offline bentparts

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Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2010, 11:04:39 AM »
All good answers. Just got back from a 2 hour drive, highway, city stop and go, anywhere from 25 to 65 mph, AC running full blast. NO overheating at all. No noise, nada.  I did make sure to turn the fan on when I was going slow or stopped.
 I did replace the radiator about a year and a half ago, with a rad from a manual trans model I had as a parts rig. It had 2 or 3 more rows of cooling fins dedicated to the engine cooling since it didn't have the built in trans cooler. I cleaned it out thouroughly before putting it in and it was free flowing then.
 I'm going to try wild's test for water pump flow just to be sure, but my guess is a: probably can't run the AC when I'm at a crawling pace; b: because the electric fan with no shroud just isn't pulling enough air through the big trans cooler, turbo heat exchanger and AC condenser. Too much stuff blocking the rad, including the winch and bumper.
As far as hot exhaust getting to the intake, the intake iteslf is water cooled and remains pretty cool, as it's part of the intercooler system. Also, almost never making boost when crawling, although the system does circulate engine coolant through the center section of the turbo all the time.

Wild, could you elaborate on which hose to put into a bucket? Bottom rad hose in bucket, top hose disconnected?
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2010, 12:59:21 PM »
Wild, could you elaborate on which hose to put into a bucket? Bottom rad hose in bucket, top hose disconnected?

Yes
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Offline bentparts

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Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2010, 01:13:13 PM »
Thanks bud. ;)
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Offline ecoast

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Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2010, 01:57:32 PM »
imho, the block and rad will drain before you can 'see' flow...and how will you know if it's spec anyways?

Waterpumps have metal vane on a shaft; if it's not weeping, prob. good.

I hope you swap out the rad before going into the wp...you can order both at the same time, and they are GREAT w/returns.



How does one clean out a radiator and test for flow? 
If you put a used 15yo rad in it is another unknown...just sayin' ...

As an aside: when I was testing both used rads in mine, they both 'appeared' to have plenty of flow
...but the new one fixed it...undersized at that, as mentioned.

I look forward to your resolution. I firmly believe you can use your A/C whilst wheeling! (seen you sweat!)


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Offline MadMaxZuki

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Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2010, 04:11:25 PM »
I Just went through ALL of this!!! A clogged radiator WILL NOT flow.  Did you add tap water in your coolant mix? Tap water DESTROYS radiators. Only used distilled water in flushing and only premix for coolant. I will bet money on a radiator. I had a brand new pump in my and coolant would not flow in a clogged radiator. Just eat the money and buy a radiator. you are over thinking this. Take my advice and start with the easiest, not the cheapest. Its not worth the aggravation, LOL.
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Offline bentparts

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Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2010, 09:28:31 PM »
Damn, you guys are pretty confident! If $ wasn't so tight right now I'd spring for a new Rad tommorow, and seeing all this confidence I guess I'm probably going to have too anyway. Ecoast, yse, the current radiator is more like 18 years old, and Madmaxzuki I have used tap water, bottled water, brown water ( what WAS in that bottle John?) sometimes mixed with antifreeze and sometimes distilled with waterwetter alone. Probably is blocked.
I can also get a rad locally for about the same price. I'll try it and let you know the results.

ecoast, yeah it's not pretty when I sweat :laugh: I NEED that AC!  All you gotta do is whip off your doors and peel back your top. Can't wait to take you winter wheeling in the Wharton with 20" of snow, at night, when it's 18 degrees~ we'll see how well that bikini top works then! ;D I guess you better take care of that back first old man  :laugh:
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Offline bentparts

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Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2010, 03:41:54 PM »
OK, I don't want to deflate anyones confidence, but it wasn't the radiator. Pulled the rad this morning, took it to a local rad shop less than a mile away, they checked it, filled it, watched it drain and pronounced it good. And it was quite clean inside. Waterpump test checked out fine too, put a hose in the top, ran the engine with the thermostat out, and water pumped freely out the bottom hose. So, waterpump, radiator and thermostat both good.
I went to the local hot rod shop where I know the owner, and he let me look through all his in stock electric fans. Since I had the rad with me I was able to size up the biggest most powerful fan I could fit, which turned out to be a 16" Proform, up 2" from what I was running before. It also flows 2200 CFM, as opposed to the 1500 CFM of my old fan, and covers most of the rad. Everythings back together, and I can see the coolant flowing in the rad after the thermostat opens. Tomorrow I'm going to field test it out in the Pines, in some deep sand, in low range, 4wd, with the AC on.
MadMadZuki, I've been using waterwetter ( Redline brand) and plain water as summer coolant for a long time with no problems, and the fact the inside of my radiator is so clean only reinforces that decision.
BTW, my cost (via my brother in law who has a repair shop) for a new rad locally is $110.
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Offline cj

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Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2010, 04:45:23 PM »
Thermos, particularly aftermarket thermos are not generally as efficient as your orignal Factory fan. The fact that you didn't even have as big a thermo as you could have fitted and are not running a shroud anymore certainly didn't help you any. Adding an intercooler, bar and winch has only hurt it more. If you have also added a bodylift and you haven't extended the foam on the top of the radiator to seal with the hood then you also have more cool air going over the radiator rather than through it. The more air you can direct through it the better. Even with your new larger thermo I would still look at trying to fab some sort of shroud if possible.
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2010, 08:19:59 PM »
Uhh, the coolant test, the water should pump out of the
top hose, block the bottom hose with your hand in a bucket
of water, put water into the top hose with your garden hose,
have someone else start the engine, if water doesn't blast out
of the top (no thermostat) then the pump isn't doing a good job

Wild
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Offline bentparts

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Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2010, 06:22:14 AM »
Quote from: wildgoody on June 21, 2010, 08:19:59 PM
Uhh, the coolant test, the water should pump out of the
top hose, block the bottom hose with your hand in a bucket
of water, put water into the top hose with your garden hose,
have someone else start the engine, if water doesn't blast out
of the top (no thermostat) then the pump isn't doing a good job

Wild

Hmmm, may have to try that again. Once it warmed up and the thermostat opened, coolant was flowing through the radiator fine, as observed with the rad cap off.
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Offline ecoast

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Re: Overheating (warning long post!)
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2010, 11:17:49 AM »
So; it's fixed w/the larger fan?

What made you go away from stock fan/shroud? ...just curious.
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