OK I saw this and had to throw my $.20 in (inflation you know).

For those of you that have been involved in the industry for 28 years, and can relate to my experience as a engineer and master technician, allow me to say: It has been allot of years since Ive seen a lubrication related failure....to say that the lube was actually there! If there is clean oil than there is NOT a problem. The sludge problems of the 80's are gone. There goes the brand preferences.....I used to think thicker is better, but better design is better. Oil of any viscosity holds on better now days. All manufactures are heading towards 0w20 for all models and they are even doing it for the older engine designs. Manufactures are stretching intervals to 10k miles and in some cases the PCM is deciding the oil condition based on the driving conditions that have been endured. All the new clearances are tighter and the weight of the parts is less. So what does this add up to. Well, if you run 5w20 or 5w30, which are readily available, and your engine is in good condition than you may see some more fuel economy and better lubrication. Personally, I believe that thinner oil will end up back in the pan ready for recirculation, which is where i want it when I'm at a vertical angle hill climbing.

If you leak or burn oil and it is slowed by a thicker viscosity, than you our only covering a engine wear issue, not a oil issue...

As for those that prefer additives.....Does the factory tell you that you need synthetic? They have to warranty the power train, what is there opinion? I think a more frequent oil change would be more beneficial

OK I saw this and had to throw my $.20 in (inflation you know).

For those of you that have been involved in the industry for 28 years, and can relate to my experience as a engineer and master technician, allow me to say: It has been allot of years since Ive seen a lubrication related failure....to say that the lube was actually there! If there is clean oil than there is NOT a problem. The sludge problems of the 80's are gone. There goes the brand preferences.....<SNIP>

Meh - there must be a lot of new old stock oil here then - because I know of a very popular brand, comes in a white bottle with a green stripe, that forms sludge in a sealed bottle, sitting on the store shelf - you take the top off, start pouring it into your engine and if you watch it flow, you'll see the golden brown stream turn to black.

Let's just say I prefer not to use that brand.

As for those that prefer additives.....Does the factory tell you that you need synthetic? They have to warranty the power train, what is there opinion? I think a more frequent oil change would be more beneficial

I certainly agree with that.

I agree with both above statements too. I use Synth because my Turbo MFG recommends it. If my motor was stock still I'd probably just use whatevers on sale like Lv2fish.

 I tend to run Shell Rotella, 10w40, as almost ALL of my engines are mech. lifter style and the Rotella provides Zinc, where as  the majority of oils out there DO NOT. The Zinc is an additive that helps to reduce the metal on metal wear that you get from a NON hyd. lifter/ follower set up, along with helping the injectors wear more evenly/ longer in a Desiel engine. This includes my Cat powered Freightliner, my type 4 VW powered 'rail, my Tracker (of course) ALL of the Fords, and the lone Jeep. Something to think about, since the older Trackick motors require a periodic valve adjustment.... ever bother to look at the amount of wear or the pattern that is on the cam, rocker arms, or the followers? A wear additive will help to keep the wear down, but, not prevent it. Don't confuse the two.

Zinc is commonly found in Diesel oil, but not in automotive oil.

I can't remember exactly, but it was about it being emissions related or
pollution in the used oil, or maybe it was just the cost as an additive as
to why zinc has been left out of auto oils.

Wild

Wild, I believe that it has more to do with a DEcrease in friction in newer engines due to things like roller lifters/followers, better metalurgy, things like this, more than anything at least with the gas motors. When I say "newer" engines, I don't mean the last 4-5 years, but as compared to the old stuff that you and I grew up with.

Ya, I pulled the heads off of a 3.8L Ford engine from the 90s and
found roller lifters, I was surprised because I thought those were
used in performance vehicles, not a Mercury Sable Wagon

No Fun Fact Filled Theory's,
My Sammy has a donor engine of unknown mileage (I bought my Sammy CHEAP it had a blown engine)
It smokes a little, but then at 24 years old, its old enough to smoke!
I run Castrol 10-40 in the Summer;
                 10-30 in the winter

I found that the cheapy oils (especially Citgo) breakdown early!

Also I add a 1/2 quart extra when I am out Wheel'n even though Sammys have a deep sump pan already to
insure an oil supply.

Capt

No Fun Fact Filled Theory's,
My Sammy has a donor engine of unknown mileage (I bought my Sammy CHEAP it had a blown engine)
It smokes a little, but then at 24 years old, its old enough to smoke!
I run Castrol 10-40 in the Summer;
                 10-30 in the winter

I found that the cheapy oils (especially Citgo) breakdown early!

Also I add a 1/2 quart extra when I am out Wheel'n even though Sammys have a deep sump pan already to
insure an oil supply.

thats a dangerous practice capt. especially in a more demanding than normal situation. can cause over-pressured crank case and blown seals. FWIW

Quote from: Capt on March 19, 2011, 05:05:52 AM

No Fun Fact Filled Theory's,
My Sammy has a donor engine of unknown mileage (I bought my Sammy CHEAP it had a blown engine)
It smokes a little, but then at 24 years old, its old enough to smoke!
I run Castrol 10-40 in the Summer;
                 10-30 in the winter

I found that the cheapy oils (especially Citgo) breakdown early!

Also I add a 1/2 quart extra when I am out Wheel'n even though Sammys have a deep sump pan already to
insure an oil supply.

thats a dangerous practice capt. especially in a more demanding than normal situation. can cause over-pressured crank case and blown seals. FWIW

I'm not going to disagree that it's a dangerous practice, but I would like to hear how it causes the crankcase to become "over-pressured" especially given the fact that the Samurai engine has what is essentially an open vent hose from the rocker cover to the air cleaner - it's hard to build pressure when you have a 1/2" vent to the atmosphere.

The reason I say it's dangerous is that if you add too much oil to the crankcase , it's possible to create a situation, especially if you're on a slope where the crank throws dip into the oil and "whip" air into it creating an oil foam - the problem that results is this foam, which is mostly air, is highly compressible and when pumped to the bearings does not lubricate well and you can end up with bearing damage and possibly a seized engine.

I'm not going to say that 1/2 a quart more will raise the level in the pan enough to cause this problem, but that it certainly increases the chance of it happening.

Yes Crank "Hammer" will happen if you REALLY over fill an engine.
During my "Look & See" on the donor engine, My Sammy has a "Windage Tray" in the oil pan (It might have been
installed by the previous engine owner) and are used to prevent the
spinning crank from drawing oil up into the bottom of the block.

And again, I just add a 1/2 qt. as I don't want to starve and engine that only has a stock
4 1/2 qt capacity while I am running it outside what the OEM had invissioned
as Normal Usage.

CAPT

I'm not going to disagree that it's a dangerous practice, but I would like to hear how it causes the crankcase to become "over-pressured" especially given the fact that the Samurai engine has what is essentially an open vent hose from the rocker cover to the air cleaner - it's hard to build pressure when you have a 1/2" vent to the atmosphere.

The reason I say it's dangerous is that if you add too much oil to the crankcase , it's possible to create a situation, especially if you're on a slope where the crank throws dip into the oil and "whip" air into it creating an oil foam - the problem that results is this foam, which is mostly air, is highly compressible and when pumped to the bearings does not lubricate well and you can end up with bearing damage and possibly a seized engine.

I'm not going to say that 1/2 a quart more will raise the level in the pan enough to cause this problem, but that it certainly increases the chance of it happening.



look....my point is that its a bad idea for a internal combustion engine not samurai specific! I'm not going to challenge you on theory or anything else. everybody on here knows you are the smartest Suzuki encyclopediahuman on the planet and cant wait for each stroke causing answer you provide.  

Touchy aren't you.

This is a discussion forum, and you asked for a debate - you made a statement, I'm asking for an explanation of that statement - Samurai engine or not, I don't see how overfilling the crankcase will cause it to become "over" pressured.  Most engines (if not all) have some sort of crankcase ventilation system that will relieve the crankcase pressure long before the seals blow.

You either know what you're talking about or you don't - I don't know what you're talking about, and I have no problem in admitting that - so here's your chance to educate me.

 what kind of oil do you run in your zuk? whats best, WHY? thats the question. so do you a answer for the simple question?

also it's what I have been taught through life. might not be exactly correct but I do believe its a bad idea to over fill a crank case. I use the theory of parasitic loss and too much liquid in a area designed for less, is bad.

The over filling answer is a simple, but has to be qualified one.

IF the oil is over full AND is being "Hammered" as it was put earlier,
it could potentially be whipped up into a foam that might not be
able to vent properly and could blow oil out the seals, I don't think
it could blow or pop the seals out of the engine.

I don't think an extra half quart is enough to cause a problem, and
also, I have been wheeling in hard angles and low on engine oil by
as much as a quart and have never had an oil light come on so I think
the extra oil is not necessary. 

This is the problem with a turbocharger that is below the oil return,
the oil is whipped into what amounts to a dirty looking whipped cream
and then floats on top of the liquid oil, causing a backup in the turbo
that then looses oil out the seals, either the compressor or the exhaust
side and will cause smoke and oil usage.

Wild