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Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers

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Offline Proby28

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Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« on: April 25, 2011, 09:53:43 PM »
I am trying to add some more low range power to my samurai. However, i am not sure on which way to go. I am leaning more towards different gearing. However, where can i find different gearing, which companies make or carry different gearing for samurai's.

Also, Im getting some vibration from my 4x4 shifter. i just replaced the u joints and it helped alot. But its still vibrating some. Only in first and second. Is that common. Should i replace the bearing on the shifter?

Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2011, 10:42:47 PM »
 Not to be too mean, but, do you see that little black bar at the top of the screen under the pictures? Try looking at the gear guide for info on dealer contacts, also google can be your friend. In liu of that, though, try Trail Tough, Low range ( gears, maybe?) things like that.

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Offline Zukipilot

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Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2011, 05:36:28 AM »
Changing out the gears in your sami will get you better low range performance but it will also hinder it at highway speeds. You need a good happy medium between the two. The lower you go the higher your RPM will be at highway speeds. A good alternative to diff gears is to switch out the transfer case gears. Most samurai T-case gear sets drop the low range gearing drastically (for better crawling off road) and have a slight drop in the high range gearing (helping out on road use with out over doing it). You can get both diff and T-case gear sets from many of the vendors that support out site. Links to their web sites can be found to on the main page. I personally have had great service and received great advice from the guys at Trail Tough.

Zig
Zukipilot
'92 Liberty Overland Sidekick

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Offline Proby28

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Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2011, 07:06:40 PM »
Thank you

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Offline Merlin93

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Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 08:10:10 AM »
Gearing: There is not just one answer.  Everyone has an opinion. But gearing MUST be coordinated with tire size. The stock, stiff, suspension will accommodate 215/75R15's without modifications. Larger tires mean suspension modifications (lift/springs/shackles) and wider wheels will likely be required, and your speedo will read low. Lower transfer-case gears do not affect speedo accuracy, but low T-case gearsets often require reinforcement of the mounting arms, a common problem with too many solutions.  Increasing Ring & Pinion (reduction) gearing (F&R) according to the increase in tire diameter is one way to keep the speedo close and minimize stresses on the rest of the drivetrain. But there are at least 5 popular transfer-case gearsets, and everyone seems to have a favorite. Suzuki Sidekick R&P (front) gears will fit the Samurai, and there are a few (3-4+) higher ratios available.   How you intend to use your Zuk will have much influence on your choices. Highway gearing can be the most difficult/critical to get right, as the engine has barely enough power. Assuming Suzuki engineers got it pretty close to right, you can plan to increase the overall highway reduction according to the increase in tire size, percent for percent, to keep your 5th gear usable.  Early Zuks (pre-'88.5) had a higher (lower numerically) 5th gear which was lowered later by 8-9%, providing better pulling ability for a few hundred additional RPM. Except for that one 5th gear change, all Samurai transmissions have the same gearing.

Vibration: There are SIX U-joints.  After replacing them ALL, I finally tracked down my vibration to a bad intermediate shaft, between the transmission and the transfer case.  It was both out-of-balance AND had a bad U-joint. Transfer-case and motor mounts can look good but be bad/broken -- check carefully.

Edit: With 30" tires, 4:1 transfer-case gears may be all you need.  The additional high-range reduction will make 5th gear work again on the highway, and you'll get a great low range for off-road. Early Zuks had a higher 5th gear, so you could consider the 4.9 gearset with more (16 or 18%) high-range reduction.  Later Zuks had a lower 5th OD gear for more pulling power, so the 4.16:1 T-case with the 12% additional high-range reduction could work well.   
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 08:34:54 AM by Merlin93 »

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 08:22:56 AM »
Gearing, transfer case or lockers??? the simple answer is yes, all of these
are an important piece to building a well capable offroad and onroad
machine, and the application of all of these parts will be greater than
any one part by it's self

If you want to start somewhere, start with transfer case gears, that
will help both daily driving and offroad performance, then go for a set of
gears for the diffs after you decide what tire you are going to use and
get a rear locker to put in when that gear swap is being done, most will
stop at that point and you will have a super offroad machine, final step
would be the front locker, which will help you crawl over big ledges and
boulders or bog through the deep gumbo, but if you don't have that in
your plans you can stop with the rear locker

Good Luck
Wild
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

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Offline Proby28

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Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 07:14:09 PM »
I appreciate everyones feed back. I think I am going to start with the transfer case, and see how i like that. than go from there. And im going to check the bearing to see if that is causing the minimal vibration that is left.

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Offline Jonny Rash

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Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2011, 01:55:03 PM »
Yes, gearing first.  I have a mild lift, 30" AT tire Samurai with 4:1 gears that does fairly well on moderate trails.  A couple of Jeeps owners were following me one time and they swore I had a locker in the rear.  Nope.
35 years of Samurai ownership, and I still have my very first one. :)

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Offline Capt

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Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2011, 07:42:46 AM »
I have a "Spruced Up" 1.3 8v;
31X10.50x15's on stock rims;
4.9 to 1 transfer case;
stock "Open" axles;
4-5 inches of lift ( 1 inch is from an extra leaf in all 4 springs)

And get along well, maybe I make a "Lincoln Locker" for the front axle out of the extra
Pumpkins I have laying around.

Now here's your chance to jump in here Gearheads;
                  My theory to lock the front and leave the rear open is that in "Bad - On Highway" conditions
                  a locked rear on that short of a wheel base is going to create a whole bunch of "Push" and you
                  will not be able to steer, it will just keep going straight.
                  This condition happens when you lock in the diff's on the Big Rigs and you compensate for it. (I'm a Teamster)
                   You usually put the front axle in once you are on the trails, and the front axle gets to the bad stuff 1st.

CAPT

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Offline ASI H8

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Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2011, 12:53:31 PM »

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Offline Proby28

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Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2011, 04:01:16 PM »
See im looking for a weekend toy, while still being able to drive it around town. I already have a life and 30 inch tires on it. I am thinking of going with a tcase first, because i dont want to much speed reduction on the highway. Than i figure gears, and lockers while im there, with a power steering of course.

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Offline Proby28

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Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2011, 08:59:46 PM »
I read on trail tough that the first thing I should do is ring & pinion. Because i have bigger tires, it is already beginning to put stress on those. That i should swap those out, than get a t case? Im stuck now between a T case first, or gears front and rear. I want a reliable car, but financially cant afford all at once or I would.

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Offline ASI H8

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Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2011, 05:38:56 AM »

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Offline Jonny Rash

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Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2011, 09:07:05 AM »
If you plan on running below 32" tires, gear reduction only in the t-case will be just fine.  That is, if you have the power.  

In one of my rigs, which I just took out to Moab, I have a 1600 16-valve, a 6.5:1 t-case, turning 32" MT tires.  I have a "Forest Bucket" which ties the two stock reinforced arms together with an Oragami like piece of plate.  I also run the stock rubber mounts to act as fuses.

After several years of running this setup, I finally broke a rubber mount (20+ years old) at Moab a couple of weeks ago, but I brought four spare mounts with with me.  8) Swapped another one in, and I was good to go.

The 18% high range reduction of the 6.5 case, 1600cc 16-valve engine, and 32" tires are a good match on the highway.  I can cruise at 70mph all day.  Then when I hit the trail, the 90:1 crawl ratio gives me all the creepy gearing I could possibly need.

However, if you have a 1300cc engine, you will probably need a little more gearing than me.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 01:12:15 PM by Jonny Rash »
35 years of Samurai ownership, and I still have my very first one. :)

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Offline Jonny Rash

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Re: Gearing, Transfer case, or lockers
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2011, 01:15:08 PM »
I have another Samurai that I drive with the stock 1300cc, a mild spring lift, and 30" AT tires.  In this rig, I run the 4:1 t-case and have run this setup for over 10 years without a problem.  It's a good dual purpose (highway/moderate trail) use vehicle.  I can cruise 65mph no problem and 70mph on flat terrain.  FYI, I'm also using the later .865 fifth with this setup.
35 years of Samurai ownership, and I still have my very first one. :)