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93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2011, 11:22:57 AM »
If you are on firing cylinder #4 now the cam and crank marks should both
point up, otherwise firing #1 crank up and cam down.

This problem is quite perplexing, and is leaving me wondering what is
happening to cause this issue.

My first thought is the timing is changing while you are driving, but I
don't know what could cause this, does this engine have the crank sensor?
what about the pickup in the distributor? have you tried a new distributor?
might be worth a shot if you can borrow a used known good one
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Offline kxrider235

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2011, 02:01:57 PM »
Maybe I accidentally tripped over the problem tonight. I unhooked the O2 sensor and nothing changed. I would think unhooking the O2 would cause it to run either rich or lean. At a minimum cause it to run like crap, just like it is now.

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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2011, 04:36:55 PM »
Maybe I accidentally tripped over the problem tonight. I unhooked the O2 sensor and nothing changed. I would think unhooking the O2 would cause it to run either rich or lean. At a minimum cause it to run like crap, just like it is now.

You generally can't tell any difference with the O2 sensor unhooked (on a good running engine).  The ECM will default to a rich mapping, so it doesn't melt down the engine.
Not sure how unhooking the O2 will affect a crappy running engine.  I suppose it might make it run better, if the O2 sensor is bad.
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Offline tsleong

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2011, 07:15:02 PM »
It can be due to ignition coil. I have seen bad coil that work fine when cold but start to miss fire when hot. You can swap in one from your other car and test it out.

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Offline kxrider235

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2011, 05:30:06 AM »
I have also thought about the ignition control module also.

I just wish I didn't have to act like the government and just throw money at this thing.

While trying to figure this out last night I started inspecting the plugs. They have less than 500 miles on them and they are pretty black. The exhaust was blowing pretty dark also (no oil smell, only consumed 1/3 quart in 3k miles). Which is why I was thinking O2. But that could also mean weak fire at the plugs.

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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2011, 06:12:16 AM »
If you do some testing, to figure out where the problem is, you don't have to "throw money" at it.
We have given you advice on things to check, we have given you links on how to test various things, we have given you advice on what to do.  The only thing we haven't done is come down and find the problem for you.
Tracker and Sidekick parts for sale.....PM me with your wants/needs.

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Offline kxrider235

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2011, 06:54:48 AM »
I have followed everyone's advice (I thank you all for the help). The throwing money thing was more a stab at humor. I have tried testing the coil (got lit up like a christmas tree, but wasn't as bad as Taser training). I have read about testing the O2, but I have no idea how old the O2 is.

I was kinda thinking IF the O2 is sending out lean signals that would cause the same signs as default correct. The plugs are showing signs of either rich fuel/air or poor spark. I would say rich fuel/air would be an O2. Poor spark on the other hand could be coil, ignition module or distributor itself. I am still reading about testing those (except for that coil thing LOL).

Frustration with this vehicle is starting to creep in so it's time to take a deep breath. That's kind of why I am going way back to basics. 

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Offline kxrider235

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2011, 02:27:15 PM »
Still trying to figure this little bird out. It will idle but it's very rough and blowing black smoke. You can smell the raw fuel.

Hit the junk yard for parts today hoping they were still good. Got a coil and distributor.
Starting with the basics and working forward now.
1. Replaced the O2 runs the same.
2. What the hey see if the J/Y coil is any good. Coil is good but "Thing" still runs the same.
3. took distributor apart. Lots of rust in there. Cleaned the 4 tabbed metal piece (covered in rust) that works with the Cam Angle Sensor and applied a light coat of dialetric grease. No change
4. Changed cam angle sensor. no change
5. changed rotor button. no change
 
Now this is the kicker. When I can get this thing to idle my timing light doesn't work. Will 7mm noise supression wires do that? The light works fine on other vehicles.

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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2011, 03:42:11 PM »
Now this is the kicker. When I can get this thing to idle my timing light doesn't work. Will 7mm noise supression wires do that? The light works fine on other vehicles.

No.
Does the timing light flash, if you hook it up to any of the other plug wires?  Maybe you have a plug wire that is bad.  Or maybe the distributor, or cap is bad.  I don't remember, have you replaced any of those.....plug wires, distributor, cap?  I guess you did say you replaced the cam angle sensor in the distributor.  Did you just replace the innards of the distributor, or swap out the whole distributor?
Did you get the little ignitor on the coil bracket, when you picked up the new coil?  If so, did you swap it out?
What spark plugs are you running?
You also mentioned something in a previous post about putting a noid light on the injectors.  Did you ever do that?  Maybe an injector(s) is stuck open.  That would definitely cause excessive gas smell, rich running and black plug(s).
Are all 4 plugs black because of too much fuel?
It could also be the ECM starting to fail.  The 92-93 16V ECMs are very prone to going bad.
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Offline kxrider235

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2011, 05:53:39 PM »
The timing light doesn't work with any of the wires. That's why I tried the wife's vehicle to make sure it worked. I know I sure don't understand what the problem is there unless the spark is so weak the timing light cant pick it up. When I pulled the coil wire with the engine running there sure looked like enough juice flowing there.

I initially replaced cap, rotor, wires and plugs. Just swapped out the distributor innards, maybe I should have swapped out the whole distributor.

I got the whole coil bracket. Coil and Igniter. Swapped both out.

spark plugs are bosch platinum 2's

Didn't get to the noid light today. Thunderstorms kept me pinned under cover most of the day.

Yes all 4 plugs are black.


I have to get on that noid light tomorrow and check those injectors so I can really focus on either fuel, fire or brain dead as the problem. Honestly I am beginning to think that the brain dead option is looking the most realistic. Especially after everything that I have cleaned, tested or replaced and the results aren't changing.

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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2011, 06:00:57 PM »
I am starting to think the ECM may be the problem as well.  Since it controls spark and fuel and it sounds like at least one is your problem.
Tracker and Sidekick parts for sale.....PM me with your wants/needs.

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Offline kxrider235

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2011, 06:28:16 PM »
Just checked Ebay and there are ads on there to rebuild the ECU for $75. Anyone dealt with these folks before? I checked the feedback and it was good. Just wondering if anyone has tried these services before and what the results were.

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Offline ranger88den

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2011, 05:14:04 AM »
Here's some ECM info.
http://www.kick-fix.com/ECU/ECU.html
I know this is basic maintenance, but have you cleaned and checked all ground connections?  Also, regarding the EGR system, with the valve off, does compressed air easily flow thru both the intake and exhaust passageways and not backfeed?  You may have to rig up a right angle blowgun fitting to check.

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Offline kxrider235

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2011, 07:21:36 AM »
Well according to KickFix if you have RubyCon capacitor you are screwed. Guess what I have for capacitors in my Zuke's ECU??? You guessed it RubyCon. Guess it's ECU repair time.

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2011, 08:46:42 AM »
Consider yourself lucky that it ran at all if those Caps are the problem.

Many guys go to the trucklet after stopping at the store and it won't
even start or run

Caps are not hard to change, if you can solder, you could fix it yourself
and save about $74

Wild
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.