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Knock knock

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Offline Samurai_Hamster

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Knock knock
« on: May 09, 2004, 03:42:40 PM »
Ok I posted before but I cannot find the thread (too doggone tired)

I still have the knock and if you recall, I used a whole can of seafoam to no avail.

Today, I was on empty and I got a bottle of Greased Lightning from Advance auto.  Dumped it in and filled the tank with Amoco 87.

Still got bad knock, obviously I know it hasn't gone through the engine yet to make a difference.  Things to note, knock only occurs in closed loop at full operational temp.  I also have noticed a tad of hesitation when I snap the throttle open from idle.  This is both stationary and while driving.  Could this be a TPS out of whack ya think?  Telling the PCM to throw more spark advance cause the PCM "thinks" the throttle is open much further than what it is?

I got no check engine light and my "new" dealer is not gonna be in operation for a while yet.
There is a place that services foreign cars out 68 west of town.  I could call and see if they got the tools for zukes.  


Any more ideas?  Things I could check?  I have the FSM but no scan tools etc.  Not even a damn ohm meter!
I am willing to entertain ideas short of torching it or driving off a cliff.
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SpinalTap

Re: Knock knock
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2004, 04:16:14 PM »
Have you tried a higher octane? If so, for more than one or two tanks?
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Offline trackinstile

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Re: Knock knock
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2004, 04:27:11 PM »
     Ok, Hamster, I'm just going to throw in my two cents here, I'm not saying this to open a can of worms here, but for my opinion, fill it with Premium.  I've always used it in my Tracker, and been using it for the past 4 years in my wifes 94 Escort, the reason being is that it started knocking, but with the premium, it helps, also I used a fuel injector cleaner that is really really great.  I'm trying to remember the name of it.  But Advanced auto parts sells it, it's in a white bottle, I'm sorryI don't remember it off hand, when I do I'll post.

    The thing with the premium is that it's only 10 cents a gallon more here where I live, at my gas station, so it's only an extra dollar to fill it with that on average.  We had a guy with a Toyota Tacoma come in with burned valves, those 2.7 four bangers are good motors, and it shouldn't have happened, the general opinion is regular gas.  premium burns cooler due to the higher octane, and is better for your valves etc.  Like I said, I don't want to get into a big can of worms, but it works for me, I'd give it a shot if I were you.  I know that our 2.0 doesn't have any settings for timing, it's all computer controlled.  And believe you me, I'm no expert on anything electrical  But why don't you give it a shot?  It cant hurt. ;D

  ps. the fuel injector cleaner is made by the company that has oil aditives as well, the display for the oil additive is on the parts counter where you turn the little gears with the crank and see how much better the protection is with the product over regualr motor oil.  I wish I could remember the name of the company, I'll think of it.  sorry, hope this helped.   Dave :-/
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A wise man once said, "Wherever you go...........There you are.............." 2000 Tracker 4 door with the 2.0 liter "Big Block". 5 speed 4WD  2001 XL-7 EX II
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Knock knock
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2004, 06:10:11 PM »
Isn't that the Lucas Oil Stabilizer ?
and Yes he's used the premium to no avail

I'm of the oppinion that the computer is
leaning out the mix, or just throwing in
some pretty agressive advance.

Have the timing checked, and get the dude
to ride along with the scantool plugged in and
recording while you drive, it will capture and store
the computer info while driving, and tell you what
you have going on.

Good Luck to you Hamster,

Wild
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Offline trackinstile

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Re: Knock knock
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2004, 06:13:20 PM »
LUCAS!!! That's it!!!! Sorry I couldn't remember the name, I was just trying to help with a cheap fix first. I didn't realize he tried it before.  Oh well, it's worth a shot.   Dave
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A wise man once said, "Wherever you go...........There you are.............." 2000 Tracker 4 door with the 2.0 liter "Big Block". 5 speed 4WD  2001 XL-7 EX II
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Offline tsleong

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Re: Knock knock
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2004, 07:19:41 PM »
Have the timing check with a timing light. The timing might be off and create the knock and hesitation. You can also adjust without timing light. Just loosen the bolt holding the distributer and turn the distributer a bit to the left or right and open the trottle and feel the engine response. Do it a bit of a time until you get a good response at acceleration and idle. This is to be done when the engine is warm up and in close loop. Hope this help.
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Offline Zukipilot

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Re: Knock knock
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2004, 11:06:46 PM »
I cont be any help to you , but just wanted to say it's good to hear your going to try and fix it instead of get rid of it ;)
Zig
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Offline Samurai_Hamster

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Re: Knock knock
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2004, 11:40:47 PM »
No dist. tsleong ;D

No I have not dumped hi test in it.  That's a thought, but at over 2 bucks a gallon.......whew.

Wild:  I tend to agree with you on the pretty aggressive spark advance.  The tailpipe is kinda black and a finger swab will come back black.
The PCM could behosed.  I like to think its something easy like the TPS.  I think its telling the PCM that the throttle is open a lot more than what it actually is and thus the PCM is putting out some pretty hot advance.

I hope to be able to get someone to ride with me so they can hear it for themselves.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2004, 12:39:06 AM by samurai_hamster »
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Crabzuki

Re: Knock knock
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2004, 11:53:52 PM »
Quote
Ok I posted before but I cannot find the thread (too doggone tired)



I still have the knock and if you recall, I used a whole can of seafoam to no avail.



Today, I was on empty and I got a bottle of Greased Lightning from Advance auto.  Dumped it in and filled the tank with Amoco 87.



Still got bad knock, obviously I know it hasn't gone through the engine yet to make a difference.  Things to note, knock only occurs in closed loop at full operational temp.  I also have noticed a tad of hesitation when I snap the throttle open from idle.  This is both stationary and while driving.  Could this be a TPS out of whack ya think?  Telling the PCM to throw more spark advance cause the PCM "thinks" the throttle is open much further than what it is?



I got no check engine light and my "new" dealer is not gonna be in operation for a while yet.

There is a place that services foreign cars out 68 west of town.  I could call and see if they got the tools for zukes.  





Any more ideas?  Things I could check?  I have the FSM but no scan tools etc.  Not even a damn ohm meter!

I am willing to entertain ideas short of torching it or driving off a cliff.




As a retired Certifed Suzuki Technician here's my two cent's worth. A knocking engine that only occurs in closed loop at full operational temperature and having some hesitation when the throttle is open from idle has the indication signs of a cracked block. If you have exhausted all your attempts to locate the knocking source the next step would to be dye test your engine.

This is done by putting an automotive dye pack in your oil and in your radiator and run the engine again till the symptoms return, then using a small black light check engine compartment for any signs of the dye also be sure to look underneath up around the bellhousing.   :(
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Offline Ronzuki

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Re: Knock knock
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2004, 12:36:04 AM »
Quote
No dist. tsleong

No I have not dumped hi test in it.  That's a thought, but at over 2 bucks a gallon.......whew.

WIld:  I tend to agree with you on the pretty aggressive spark advance.  The tailpipe is kinda black and a finger swab will come back black.
The PCM could behosed.  I like to think its something easy like the TPS.  I think its telling the PCM that the throttle is open a lot more than what it actually is and thus the PCM is putting out some pretty hot advance.

I hope to be able to get someone to ride with me so they can hear it for themselves.

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'91, RRO Bolt-On SPO, 32" BFG Muds, 2" BS U.S. Wheels, Breeeze CO, Neon Seats, 5.8:1 T-Case, TT Mighty Kong Bucket, 1.5" RUF, 1.5" Rears, DT Shocks, RRO Sliders ,Rear DetroitEZ, OBA,Celica PS

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Offline Samurai_Hamster

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Re: Knock knock
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2004, 12:38:28 AM »
Cracked block?
Hmmmm how could that be?

I should say that this is spark knock, not a rod or main bearing knock and the ping is RPM specific and temp specific.
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Offline Ronzuki

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Re: Knock knock
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2004, 12:42:01 AM »
Might of helped if i typed something in previously!!  Not awake i guess.  

Anyway, hamster, I've been following this a while and didn't have anything constructive to add. Your comment about the black tailpipe confused me a bit and got me wondering.  My Sami has the same black sooty tailpipe (has since I've owned it) I don't have any knocking, but, I do run premium in it.  I guess the only thing I can say is my fuel mileage isn't great, but it's not real bad either. So what does all this mean?
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'91, RRO Bolt-On SPO, 32" BFG Muds, 2" BS U.S. Wheels, Breeeze CO, Neon Seats, 5.8:1 T-Case, TT Mighty Kong Bucket, 1.5" RUF, 1.5" Rears, DT Shocks, RRO Sliders ,Rear DetroitEZ, OBA,Celica PS

RCrocs Team 509
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Offline Ronzuki

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Re: Knock knock
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2004, 12:44:24 AM »
Did you say it pings when hot or cold?
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'91, RRO Bolt-On SPO, 32" BFG Muds, 2" BS U.S. Wheels, Breeeze CO, Neon Seats, 5.8:1 T-Case, TT Mighty Kong Bucket, 1.5" RUF, 1.5" Rears, DT Shocks, RRO Sliders ,Rear DetroitEZ, OBA,Celica PS

RCrocs Team 509
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Crabzuki

Re: Knock knock
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2004, 01:02:28 AM »
Quote


I am willing to entertain ideas short of torching it or driving off a cliff.




Well then between you and me there's one really good cliff and that's at Camp David. Your only a few hours away from me, you could take your zuki bungie jumping without the bungie or I could bring 1/4 sticks and primacord and we could toast it like a marshmallow!  
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Offline Samurai_Hamster

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Re: Knock knock
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2004, 02:02:13 AM »
Quote
Did you say it pings when hot or cold?



Only when hot when ECM is in closed loop mode.
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