Hi all, I've been reading this forums for months and finally decided to post.
Wanted to share my project with you and ask some questions...
I live in New York, but continuously travel to Ecuador, South America, that's where I bought a brand new 2011 Sidekick (they keep producing these amazing trucks).
My rig:
Year 2011, 1.6L, 16V, 2 door, 5 speed manual, Calmini 3" suspension + custom suspension mods = 7" lift, IFS, 30" tires, etc etc...
Basically I want to improve the truck and go for 33" tires, so a few weeks ago I bought this: 4.24:1 gears, rear lock right locker, Trail tough's undertaker.
I'll be doing trips to the Amazon jungle (lots of mud and rivers) and the Andean mountains (lots of mud + high altitude of more than 12,000 ft above sea level). I'll be driving the sidekick on the highway for miles before I reach my destination.

I'm not a mechanic but I think I have some decent basic knowledge on the topic. I was so exited about improving the kick, that I forgot to consider the impact of the 33s and the stock pieces,, now I am concerned about the whole configuration specially about braking differentials (front and rear) rear axles and front CVs. Is there anything I'm missing here?

What would you suggest or recommend me to do?
Any help or comments are greatly appreciated.

Best,
Mario

Nice looking vehicle. Did I read correctly? 2011? Man thats cool knowing you can buy a "new" gen I type sidekick. I heard of other countries still producing the original toyota trucks, but never thought about Suzukis.....

With 33s and the gearing your at, you'll likely blow up front housings/third members (if not steel), Front CVs, and rear axles. Of coarse thats if you wheel hard and push it. The rear axles are a pain to trail replace, not impossible, just not fun. Front CVs are quite easy, and I have gotten it down to about a 15min job, so just carry a spare CV.

Sounds like money isn't much of an option, considering what you have already spent....I recommend anvil for the front and run ARBs front and rear....this will save some stress on your rode traveling. As far as rear axle "upgrades" go, there isn't much worthwhile. So a rear axle swap may be something to consider.

Ultimately I feel 32s-33s are the line for the Suzuki drivetrain. The thing that will save the most parts is knowing your rig, and knowing when to let off. So don't be scared to winch the questionable stuff.

I would agree that 32-33 is the max for tire size for a "reliable" trac/kick wheeler. Personally I've found that 31x10.50 is a decent balance to get a decent size tread on the ground, yet not have to deal with breakage too often. I've been tempted to replace my older tires with 32x9.50 when the time comes (probably with spacers for a bit more off camber stability).

One thing to remember is what you want your tires todo. With 31x10.50 and packed snow drifts, I could float right on top. Sometimes the "floatation" factor wasn't any help (would clog+spin before I could get to some grip (applies to mud and snow). IMO, from what you're looking todo and your lift, etc, I'd suggest 32x9.50.

I'll also second the suggestion for ARB front and rear. Mine had a spool rear and lockrite front and that made it nearly unstoppable, but not very pavement friendly. My next rig will have ARB's (even if I have to run open diffs until funds allow).

FWIW, I beat my 2dr during a "destructive testing" phase, and the weakest link was always the front CV"s. I just had spacer lift + OME struts, and eventually got it dialed into a 2.5" front lift that was "reliable". I never had an issue with the front housing. I also should note that I ran an automatic and I think that does help a bit on softening the shock of some of the hard wheeling.

One question ... did you get your 2011 registered in the USA?

Thanks a lot, I have learned so much from your answers...!

Yes it is a 2011 model     Bought it directly from a Chevrolet dealer (Suzuki Vitara it's called) I have to say, it was pretty hard to convince my wife that this was the best car for On and Off road driving in Ecuador  at the end I got it!!  

Ok, so there's no way around to avoid breaking parts but swapping the aluminum stock diff carrier and housing for steel.
About the lockers, yes I totally agree with you, ARB would be the best choice for on-road flexibility, but they are so expensive...
I already bought a "Lockright locker" from TrailTough for the rear diff. I guess here the advantage of being a manual transmition makes a difference, you just have to clutch in order to disengage the locker on every turn. Are these locker really that noisy?
Do rear axles brake that often as front CVs do? I'm getting a bit scared now... Are the rear housing and diff carrier made out of steel or iron at least?

Since I will be using the "Undertaker" (1.5 = 50% reduction) with the original 5.12 ring and pinions, I am forced to run at list 33" tall tires. I understand It'll be a bit slower than normal, but still drivable on highway. Am I correct here, what do you guys think? 32s would be great but not really reliable on the highway in my case I guess.
What about running 33x9.50s (thin and tall tires) instead of say 33x12.50s (wide and tall tires), will this help to reduce mass friction and weight stress to prevent breakage,,, all this without lowering and over-revving even more??

No, it's not registered in the US. The rig is in Ecuador for my Safari-like trips. Don't think it's a good idea to bring it here, I live in Manhattan   

Thanks to all of you that have read this post and even more thanks to those that comment!

Mario

I guess here the advantage of being a manual transmition makes a difference, you just have to clutch in order to disengage the locker on every turn. Are these locker really that noisy?

If you merely let off the gas you achieve the same results. So if you just dont gas it in corners the locker "disengages." The locker will only engage when torque is applied to the input. And yes you can often here the "ratcheting" of the locker.

Do rear axles brake that often as front CVs do? I'm getting a bit scared now... Are the rear housing and diff carrier made out of steel or iron at least?

The rear diff and housing is steel, and thats not normally the fail point on the rear...its often the short side axle (driver rear). The last couple years I am averaging 4:1 as a ratio to CV:rear axle. So every 4 CV I have one rear axle broke. But this is no concrete number, just my conditional stats. I do wheel it pretty hard, and there are times when I should call for a winch. I know this limit the more I wheel it, and if it's something I know not worth it, I don't push it.

Since I will be using the "Undertaker" (1.5 = 50% reduction) with the original 5.12 ring and pinions...

I know it sucks to think this way, but you could run a stock tcase gear ratio and see how you like it. My tracker is geared fine with 33s and the 4.24 case. You could sell your 4.24 case and 33s. Then buy some 31-32s. Dont leave out all options, if you think you want be a more "reliable" wheeler. Which if I was in the middle of no-where, I think I would.

What about running 33x9.50s (thin and tall tires) instead of say 33x12.50s (wide and tall tires), will this help to reduce mass friction and weight stress to prevent breakage,,, all this without lowering and over-revving even more??

I run very aggressive 9.5r16...which are 33x9.50. I really think that diameter and traction is what adds the most stress on the driveline components. Increasing tire diameter is increasing the torque seen on your driveline, width of the tire will effect mass and often traction. I guess it might help, but I don't know if you would notice.


Thanks for sharing the pics of the Sidekick. It has to be the cleanest and newest Gen I that I have ever saw.

Great, very valuable information!

I didn't know that just by letting off the gas, the locker disengages. It's also good to know that the rear is all steel, although the axles are the weak point.
For now I think the best will be using my setup (undertaker+4.24:1+rear LockRight) with 33x9.50 tires but weeling it mild until I can afford a steel front diff case and housing (a definite upgrade).

Thanks a lot for your answers

Mario

Do not forget the required custom driveshafts and slip joint eliminators to use the undertaker. Personally I feel the undertaker increases the driveshaft angle too much on a 2dr and would only consider it on a 4dr.

You may want to take a good hard look at the reliableity issues of the Undertaker. I've read a few threads about it being overstressed and underengineered, although I've personally had nothing but great experience with Trail Tough and Brent, the Undertaker may have some issues to look into.
I run 32x11.50 BFG AT KO tires on my Tracker with the Auto Trans, 4.24 tcase gears and 5.13 diffs, ARB's both ends and it'll get through , over or around most anything. I do have a winch and would suggest the winch with a quality rope such as Blue Steel would be a better investment than the Undertaker. If you can't find or don't want to go to the expense of steel replacemant parts for your front diff you could always brace it to PREVENT breakage before it happens. There are several threads here that show how. I've been running the same stock aluminum diff for years and thousands of miles without any problems, and have put my rig into some pretty hairy situations. Braced from day one.
Knowing your rigs capabilities will do more to prevent breakage and stranding than many expensive preventive parts. My 2 cents.
What it it you do that requires you to travel from the jungles of NYC to the jungles of Ecuador ?

Do not forget the required custom driveshafts and slip joint eliminators to use the undertaker. Personally I feel the undertaker increases the driveshaft angle too much on a 2dr and would only consider it on a 4dr.

Thanks for the comment,
Yes, I'm aware of the modifications needed to both driveshafts. Though, I'm planning to send the stock ones for lengthening (front shaft) and shortening (rear shaft), instead of buying new ones. this way I can save some money and the need of a Slip yoke eliminator. Is this even possible or do I really need to get new ones?

Mario

You may want to take a good hard look at the reliableity issues of the Undertaker. I've read a few threads about it being overstressed and underengineered, although I've personally had nothing but great experience with Trail Tough and Brent, the Undertaker may have some issues to look into.

Thanks!
Sure, I also read some threads about the problems related to the first Undertakers, including the whining sound. I understand those issues were already resolved on the new units. If I'm not mistaking, they switched to a new gear provider.

If you can't find or don't want to go to the expense of steel replacemant parts for your front diff you could always brace it to PREVENT breakage before it happens. There are several threads here that show how. I've been running the same stock aluminum diff for years and thousands of miles without any problems, and have put my rig into some pretty hairy situations. Braced from day one.

This is great news, so there is an alternative! I'll check it out.
I already have a winch installed in my truck (a t-max 9500lb) I use it all the time and would not wheel without it, specially in mud or swamp terrain.

Knowing your rigs capabilities will do more to prevent breakage and stranding than many expensive preventive parts. My 2 cents.
What it it you do that requires you to travel from the jungles of NYC to the jungles of Ecuador ?

Well, yeah I pretty much travel from one jungle to another I'm an architect (urban designer) working in a firm based in NYC-Quito (Ecuador), spend half a year abroad. Ecuador is a beautiful tiny country right in the middle of the world (Latitude 0'0'0)
 Within a couple of hours you are in the Andes mountains (huge altitude and snow) or in the Amazon rain forest, if you like sand, the tropical beaches in the Pacific Ocean, and of course the Galapagos Islands. It's like a little paradise!!

Mario

It is great that the 1st gen is still available somewheres, heck if they still sold the 1st gen here I would buy one right now and that is saying something as I refuse to purchase a new vehicle of any kind.

Ecuador would be cool to visit, I never had the opportunity. Had a chance to visit several south and central American countries while in the service, so far Chile and the high Andes has been my favorite place to visit.

 

I'm installing the undertaker and the mechanic says the truck will be low enough for my needs. So I decided to sell my 4.24:1 transfer case gears. Please look for my post in the classified ads
Thanks, Mario

If you can find some gears from an early Tracker/Sidekick/Vitara that had the 3-speed Automatic that might be enough to bring you back to decent gearing with the 33's.  It would still be a little low, but better then the 5.12's.

Thanks for that Drone637, I'll see if I can find those R&Ps at an affordable price. They have them used at TrailTough but are about $500 front and rear.