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Lift Kit Install Questions....

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Lift Kit Install Questions....
« on: May 09, 2012, 03:47:13 PM »
Have a 2004 GV (4-dr, 4wd 2.5LV6 w/auto):
1.  Does the front right half-shaft come off w/o removing a boot?  "Need" to do this to replace the right drop link mount for the front axle.
2.  Can't find a yoke or y-shaped cantilever spring compressor w/o spending $$$.  Can't get the heavy/stiff spring onto the upper bump stop and bend it into the cradle, and there's not enough space for a strut-type compressor.  Any ideas?
Thanks ~ looking forward to getting this done; then have the winch kit wiring, rims & tires and we're ready to head to some more challenging off-roading!!

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Offline 3stagevtec

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Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2012, 08:02:37 PM »
2) The spring will go onto the control arm, but it's a 2 man job to get done. One guy aligns the spring and pushes it towards the control arm seating position. The second guy should have a trolley jack under the control arm and ready to push the arm up for the spring to catch. It does seem impossible, but I reinstalled GV control arms about 6 times now without having the need for a spring compressor.

1) If I understand you correctly, the right side axle can be pried out of the differential. If you are still having trouble to get the diff drop bracket in, try removing the 3rd diff mount located on top of the cross member. I had to replace my front diff the same time I installed the brackets and that was one tough job..

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Offline bush buster

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Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2012, 05:57:57 AM »
Once you've pulled the diff a few times it gets easier haha!

Pry the axle stub out of the diff with a large screwdriver or something because there is a snap ring inside the diff which is holding the axle in there.

When doing the front springs I found I needed the help of a spring compressor.  I used the strut style compressor and it was very tight but I was able compress the spring just a couple inches to make it fit.
(FOR SALE, drop me a line) '01 Vitara 2.0, 2" suspension lift, 2" body lift, 31x10.5x15 Interco TRXUS MT's on ford truck turbine rims, 1" wheel spacers, manual hubs, 5125 gears (Sidekick rear and GV steel front). DD/bushmobile "Snowflake"

'06 Impreza - Wife's ride and road tripper
 
1975 Dodge 360 Sportsman 1 ton van chassis with a 21' Triple E Class C motorhome

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Offline BRD HNTR

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Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 06:34:58 AM »
You shouldn't have to drop the spring to replace either Front Diff mount.
Right front shaft will come out w/o removing a boot.

brush buster is right.  The more you do it the easier it becomes, and some axles stick in the Diff. and require effort to get them out. 

Put jack under A arm
Remove 3 nuts on top of Strut
Disconnect Sway Bar on that side
Remove clip holding brake line in place and slide brake line out of holder (do not disconnect brake lines)
Lower jack
You should be able to slide CV shaft out of diff. by swinging strut outward (CV may not need to be removed from diff. to replace spring)
You should be able to lower enough to remove replace spring

If you are replacing the CV or the boot on CV, take the Snap Ring off the outside of shaft before doing the above.  (Snap ring is a bugger to get off, and hard to find replacement if you bend it up.)
93 Tracker,XL7 springs & 1" raised spring pads in front with YJ springs in back, home built bumpers rear & front (w/winch), 2" x 4" rock tubes,  ARB front & rear, converted Sami rear to IFS, 33x12.5x15  aluminum rims, roll cage, 2.7L w/5 speed auto.

Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 05:43:57 PM »
I'm installing a lift kit, which entails new springs, struts, control arms and axle drop links.  pulling the left (driver's) side half shaft was relatively easy (three bolts on the axle half that then extends into the diff), but there's no similar bolt-up link on the right side.  Does that half axle just pull out (or get pried out)?  I don't want to damage a c-clip internal to the diff, but does than mean I drain it & open it to pull that c-clip?  Seems like a lot of work for something that should be a lot easier.  

Any suggestions on a good way to "bend" the spring from the upper perch into the control arm perch while having the control arm jacked up?  

The rear of the car was so easy...

I initially tried a strut compressor but once the spring was on the car I couldn't get the hooks out - the spring compression took away the space necessary to remove them.  Had to pull it all apart to get the compressor assy out  ;-(
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 05:46:04 PM by Green_Hornet »

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Offline nprecon

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Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2012, 09:51:23 PM »
I've had the front springs out of two of my 2nd gen trucks.  Last October I installed an OME suspension by myself.  Both times I used a cheap coil spring compressor from Harbor Freight.  They cost about $20 and they are worth it.   I cut one compressor shaft shorter than the other to fit the tight side space, I put anti-seize compound on the threads of the shaft and used my impact in short bursts to compress the spring down about two inches.   Two inches +/-  IS enough to remove or install a front spring.  Keep in mind these are Harbor Freight coil spring compressors... not Mac Tool.  During install you push the spring up into position (over the spring guide) then you can rotate the bottom pig tail into place by threading it into position.  You may have to pry it a bit also but it should rotate in.  

Personally, I wouldn't attempt to 'bend' (by simply prying) the springs out of position.  It's amazing how far and hard springs will fly with just an inch of pressure on them.  Your hand, arm or leg will not stop them from their trajectory without significant damage.

ALWAYS treat these springs with GREAT  respect when they are under tension.  Keep your fingers, arms and legs positioned appropriately.

I should say I also had disconnected the sway bar, tie rods ends and removed the brake caliper and suspended the caliper by wire up out of the way (towards the front of the wheel well) so I did not exert unnecessary tension on the brake lines.  I used a rolling hydraulic jack under the A-arm with jack stands supporting the truck frame just behind the crossmember.

Reference the CV shaft.  Yes, there is a C-clip on the end inside the diff.  They are stiff, especially if the CV shaft has been riding in there for a hundred thousand miles.  I had a Y shaped yoke made of about 1/4" steel that I slipped into the opening between the CV shaft and the carrier to pry them apart.  The trick is to continually rotate the CV shaft in order to 'center' the C clip into position on the shaft so it will pull out between prying or pounding on the yoke (or whatever prying device you use).  I had to get neanderthal on my last one.  I beat on my yoke with a 2# sledge to get it to pop out.

Once you pop The CV shaft out visually inspect the end of the CV spline to ensure your C clip is intact.  If it is missing you get to split your diff from the carrier and go find it inside.  It will trash your diff if left inside to get chewed up.

If your 2004 is similar to my Tracker, you should be able to remove the nut on the ball joint of the A arm, remove the axle hubs and the C-clip retaining the CV shaft in the hub and just pull the hub out and off to get it out of the way.  You will have to have a pickle fork to knock the ball joint down so the nut will clear the CV shaft.   If you are replacing the A arms you will be taking your front end down to this point any way.  

Speaking of the A-arms, since you are replacing them, you may as well loosen the bolts so the arm will swing down farther than the bushings will allow them to when the A arm bolts are tight.  Oh yeah, consider replacing the inside seal to your hub assembly while you have it apart as well.   It's a perfect time to do it and it is worth doing it while you are in there.  If your ball joints are trashed and worn your seals are in no better condition.  Same goes for replacing the passenger side carrier seal.

For what it is worth... the project goes back together in less than half the time it takes to pull it apart!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 10:12:06 PM by nprecon »
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline diftoyota

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Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2012, 04:18:02 AM »
I've had the front springs out of two of my 2nd gen trucks.  Last October I installed an OME suspension by myself.  Both times I used a cheap coil spring compressor from Harbor Freight.  They cost about $20 and they are worth it.   I cut one compressor shaft shorter than the other to fit the tight side space, I put anti-seize compound on the threads of the shaft and used my impact in short bursts to compress the spring down about two inches.   Two inches +/-  IS enough to remove or install a front spring.  Keep in mind these are Harbor Freight coil spring compressors... not Mac Tool.  During install you push the spring up into position (over the spring guide) then you can rotate the bottom pig tail into place by threading it into position.  You may have to pry it a bit also but it should rotate in.  

Personally, I wouldn't attempt to 'bend' (by simply prying) the springs out of position.  It's amazing how far and hard springs will fly with just an inch of pressure on them.  Your hand, arm or leg will not stop them from their trajectory without significant damage.

ALWAYS treat these springs with GREAT  respect when they are under tension.  Keep your fingers, arms and legs positioned appropriately.

I should say I also had disconnected the sway bar, tie rods ends and removed the brake caliper and suspended the caliper by wire up out of the way (towards the front of the wheel well) so I did not exert unnecessary tension on the brake lines.  I used a rolling hydraulic jack under the A-arm with jack stands supporting the truck frame just behind the crossmember.

Reference the CV shaft.  Yes, there is a C-clip on the end inside the diff.  They are stiff, especially if the CV shaft has been riding in there for a hundred thousand miles.  I had a Y shaped yoke made of about 1/4" steel that I slipped into the opening between the CV shaft and the carrier to pry them apart.  The trick is to continually rotate the CV shaft in order to 'center' the C clip into position on the shaft so it will pull out between prying or pounding on the yoke (or whatever prying device you use).  I had to get neanderthal on my last one.  I beat on my yoke with a 2# sledge to get it to pop out.

Once you pop The CV shaft out visually inspect the end of the CV spline to ensure your C clip is intact.  If it is missing you get to split your diff from the carrier and go find it inside.  It will trash your diff if left inside to get chewed up.

If your 2004 is similar to my Tracker, you should be able to remove the nut on the ball joint of the A arm, remove the axle hubs and the C-clip retaining the CV shaft in the hub and just pull the hub out and off to get it out of the way.  You will have to have a pickle fork to knock the ball joint down so the nut will clear the CV shaft.   If you are replacing the A arms you will be taking your front end down to this point any way.  

Speaking of the A-arms, since you are replacing them, you may as well loosen the bolts so the arm will swing down farther than the bushings will allow them to when the A arm bolts are tight.  Oh yeah, consider replacing the inside seal to your hub assembly while you have it apart as well.   It's a perfect time to do it and it is worth doing it while you are in there.  If your ball joints are trashed and worn your seals are in no better condition.  Same goes for replacing the passenger side carrier seal.

For what it is worth... the project goes back together in less than half the time it takes to pull it apart!

you know should know by now if you done it twice that if you remove the coil without the lift on you can take it off by hand right? and the jeff kit is only a 1.5" spacer but gives a 2" lift with the factory coil rubber insulator in. with a 1.5" spacer has he got, the coil spacer is not require as the spring can be pushed in the spring seat before jacking up to place, since its in the seat it has almost no way of poping out. but for over  a 1.5" coil spring spacer, i would concider people to use a spring compressor, even tho i know a guy that did 8 trackers and vitaras and 2 other friend putting on up to 3" lift and never used a spring compressor yet at his custom shop. doable, but over a 1.5" spacer i would not trust it.

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Offline bush buster

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Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2012, 05:56:25 AM »



Once you pop The CV shaft out visually inspect the end of the CV spline to ensure your C clip is intact.  If it is missing you get to split your diff from the carrier and go find it inside.  It will trash your diff if left inside to get chewed up.


Wait...the C clip is supposed to be on the end of the cv shaft when you pull it out???  Or do you mean visually inspect inside the diff? 

Currently my cv shaft has about an inch of play (when pulling on it in and out of the diff) and I was wondering if that is a bad sign because in the past the shaft has been in there very very tight.
(FOR SALE, drop me a line) '01 Vitara 2.0, 2" suspension lift, 2" body lift, 31x10.5x15 Interco TRXUS MT's on ford truck turbine rims, 1" wheel spacers, manual hubs, 5125 gears (Sidekick rear and GV steel front). DD/bushmobile "Snowflake"

'06 Impreza - Wife's ride and road tripper
 
1975 Dodge 360 Sportsman 1 ton van chassis with a 21' Triple E Class C motorhome

Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2012, 09:06:25 AM »
It's not a c-clip...its a spring ring in a groove on the shaft meant to be an interference to just pulling the shaft out...(yes, I just got it out!).  It's meant (& designed) to be able to be pulled out w/the shaft.  Our car only has 60kmi on it, boots look good so i'm cleaning all up, spraying them w/303 (I put that s**t on everything!!) and will reassemble.  Unfortunately, it looks like our right side drop link was the wrong one, we may have to wait for a replacement to be shipped.  That's in review now (sent pics, waiting for call...).  We've really liked these things as an RV toad, and are looking forward to some more aggresive off-roading, so hope it's all together soon!!

THanks ~

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Offline bush buster

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Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2012, 09:48:09 AM »
Hmm mine has the same ring as found on the hub end of the cv axle...is that not what should be on there???  I have never had it come out when I remove the axle...

I just inspected the cv for play again and relaized that it is playing tricks on me...if i pull gently it only has 1/4" of play but if i pull a little harder it come out to an inch...if i play with it a little it will stay tight at around 1/4" of play, but im sure if i go drive around with the hubs engaged it will be back at one inch.  Damn i think something is not right in there... Feedback anyone? I'm picturing the snap ring not properly seated in there...
(FOR SALE, drop me a line) '01 Vitara 2.0, 2" suspension lift, 2" body lift, 31x10.5x15 Interco TRXUS MT's on ford truck turbine rims, 1" wheel spacers, manual hubs, 5125 gears (Sidekick rear and GV steel front). DD/bushmobile "Snowflake"

'06 Impreza - Wife's ride and road tripper
 
1975 Dodge 360 Sportsman 1 ton van chassis with a 21' Triple E Class C motorhome

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Offline nprecon

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Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2012, 09:27:11 PM »
Yep.  I'm trackin with ya.  You can remove the coil by hand... if you don't have coil spacers installed.  I had Jeff's 1.5" coil spacer on the front springs in the trucks I removed the springs from.  Then I found my stock rubber spring isolators were missing when I pulled the springs and coil spacers out, so I had my machine shop friend turn one of Jeff's front coil spacers down to TWO 1/2" thickness spacers and used them on top of my OME springs for isolators.  I did use my Harbor Freight coil spring compressor and I did compress them about 2" inches.  I wouldn't feel comfortable compressing them much farther with a Harbor Freight compressor.   But then I also wouldn't feel comfortable hacking off a length of a Mac Tool compressor either ($).

I've also watched a couple mechanics raise these trucks on lifts, put jacks under the a-arms, remove both A-arm bolts, lower the A-arms and then remove and install the springs too.  They did it, but I wouldn't do it that way.  It didn't kill them, but that technique probably would've killed me though.  Again, the experience thingy.

Yep.  I referred to the C-clip on the inside of the CV shaft (that fits into the housing)... not the snap ring securing the outside of the CV shaft in the hub.  Yes, it is more of a spring ring.  They remind me a lot of the hog rings used in the snouts of pigs.

I did mean to visually inspect the end of the CV shaft (the stub) that you pull out of the housing.  IF the c-clip (spring ring) isn't on the end of the CV stub... then it is either laying in the bottom of the housing waiting to be sucked up into the ring gear and pinion... or someone had the front end apart and installed a CV without a c clip on the CV stub end.  If I didn't see it on the stub end when I pulled it out, I would spilt the diff and housing and go looking for it.  My CV stubs came out with the c-clips in place but I split my diff from the housing anyway because I installed the 4.88 gear set in place of the stock 4.62 gears.

Bush Buster, I had trouble getting the passenger side snap ring to properly seat in the machined groove after I installed my new CV and inside seal too.  I didn't have any problem with the driver side.   I pushed and pried to get the damned snap ring to seat into the groove on the spline against the wheel hub... but it just wasn't happening.  I ended up taking it over to my friends machine shop and he placed the washer and the snap ring on his micro polisher.  He took just a few thousands off them, I took them back to my truck, slid them on, almost got them to seat and was about to pull them off again, when I decided to reach in and rotate the CV shaft.  I turned the CV about a 1/4 of a turn and heard the snap ring "pop" into place.  All was good.  I think maybe I put a small bend on the snap ring when removing it with my too small of a tip snap ring pliers.

Referencing the "play" in the CV shaft... are you referring to the amount of play you have between your CV and the housing... or are you referring to the amount of play the entire CV shaft has in it?   I don't recall there being much in and out play to the CV installed into the housing once the c-clip locks in.  I'm thinking if your spring clip/c clip was on your stub when you inserted it... it is still on there.  The CV axle is designed to extend and compress a little to compensate for the flex of the A-arms, so if you are pulling on the outside end, there will be more movement.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 10:28:01 PM by nprecon »
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline bush buster

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Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2012, 05:38:50 AM »
Ok thanks...

Yes I am refering to in and out play between the housing and the cv. Unfortunately when my diff was rebuilt a few weeks back the guy who rebuilt it left the snap ring inside the diff when he put it back together. So he said when I asked him what happened to it but he didn't seem too sure... Anyways i said nothing as I thought that was the way it was supposed to go because as I mentioned I have never had that clip stay on the cv when i removed it before. I guess I should go fish it out. I got a snap ring out through the oil drain hole before using a magnet...but I don't think this one  is floating around freely YET. Better not wait till that happens I guess.

I wonder if I can carefully get it with some long needlenose pliers I have..since Im guessing it's partially seated just beyond the splines inside the diff??

Can you tell me if the snap ring is the same as the one that goes on the hub end?  Because when my old snap ring got mangled i replaced it with one from the hub end of a sidekick cv from a scrapyard.
(FOR SALE, drop me a line) '01 Vitara 2.0, 2" suspension lift, 2" body lift, 31x10.5x15 Interco TRXUS MT's on ford truck turbine rims, 1" wheel spacers, manual hubs, 5125 gears (Sidekick rear and GV steel front). DD/bushmobile "Snowflake"

'06 Impreza - Wife's ride and road tripper
 
1975 Dodge 360 Sportsman 1 ton van chassis with a 21' Triple E Class C motorhome

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Offline nprecon

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Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2012, 07:37:43 AM »
NO they are different.  The snap ring on the hub end is literally a snap ring with two eyelets  at the opening you insert your snap ring pliers into to expand them to remove.  Snap rings are machined FLAT

The c-clip or 'spring ring' on the stub end is literally a "C" shaped, ROUND  wire spring that is hard as hell.  The ends of the c-clip are slightly bent inwards.... I guess so they won't stick up and catch on the inside of the housing and spring off.

I don't think a snap ring could even be inserted into the housing of the diff on a CV stub.   Conversely an inner c-clip could be popped on the the outside spline, but it wouldn't lock the axle on the hub because it is round and the machined groove on the spline is square..

'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline nprecon

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Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2012, 07:58:16 AM »
He left the c-clip "in the diff" when he rebuilt it?  What exactly did he do to it when he rebuilt your diff?  
« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 08:03:23 AM by nprecon »
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline bush buster

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Re: Lift Kit Install Questions....
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2012, 12:02:43 PM »
I gave him the old diff with cracked aluminum housing in one piece with the snap ring inside (when i oulled the passenger side axle the ring stayed inside, likely because I am using the wrong snap ring. >:(  I also gave him a steel gv diff and carrier housing and a rebuilld kit consisting of bearings seals and shims for him to install the old guts into the new housings. When he gave it back i asked where is the snap ring?  He seemed unsure but then said it was in there. It was in there too because when i installed the axle it snapped in tight...unfortunately i had to remove the axle again and when i reinstalled one more time it did not seat properly.

Thanks for the info this explains a lot!

Oh but for the record the snap ring (wrong one) can be inserted on the cv axle stub, i've done it haha.
(FOR SALE, drop me a line) '01 Vitara 2.0, 2" suspension lift, 2" body lift, 31x10.5x15 Interco TRXUS MT's on ford truck turbine rims, 1" wheel spacers, manual hubs, 5125 gears (Sidekick rear and GV steel front). DD/bushmobile "Snowflake"

'06 Impreza - Wife's ride and road tripper
 
1975 Dodge 360 Sportsman 1 ton van chassis with a 21' Triple E Class C motorhome