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Moab trip with the GV

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Offline crewcabrob

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Moab trip with the GV
« on: August 06, 2012, 08:35:57 AM »
Hi all,

Just got back from a trip to the Black Hills of South Dakota, Denver/Dillon/Estes Park Colorado and of course Moab Utah.  I put 2500 miles on our GV in 7 days.  Even with the big tires, lift and the cargo box on top, I averaged over 20mpg for teh entire trip.  That is even with the 100 or so offroad miles in the mountains and on the slick rock trails around Moab. 

My son got some really great photos of us on Fins & Things and some remote trails on the Eastern Side of the La Sal mountains.  The GV did great on Fins & Things and other trails, but the departure angle was hard to deal with sometimes.  I ended up dragging the license plate suround on a few of the ledges.  I never hit the underside of the truck at any time and the front never hit the ground with the exception of some famous red sand on one steep ledge.  Traction was never a problem with the Goodyears (aired down to 18psi) and I was actually quite surprised at how much articulation I was able to get.  Notice in one of the photos the front is really unloaded as I climb one of the steep slick rock hills and look at another shot where the rear tire is stuffed into the wheel well.

My brothers blue 2012 Rubicon is in a few photos.  He was running 35's and a 6 inch lift.  Where I had to be careful of tire placement and such, he just idled over/down/up everything without any drama.  He averaged 12.5mpg for the trip.










I have lots more pictures but wanted to at least get a teaser out there for people to see.

Rob



92 Sami, OME YJ SPUA, 15x10 Ultra wheels, 32x11.5x15 MTR/k, Corbeau Moab seats, Shrockworks bumpers and tank skid, Mighty Kong, 6.5:1 gears, hi-rock rails, Bushwacker 6" flares, Rampage tinted top, Grant wheel, Truck-lites LED head lights, PIAA LED driving lights, MOAB Husker Spirit license plate

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Offline Jonny Rash

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Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 09:19:21 AM »
Cool! 

Makes me want to build my '99 GV for offroad.
25+ years of Samurai ownership!

Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 10:02:07 AM »
Looks great! I really want to get my Sidekick to Moab this year. We'll see. Fins n Things is a fun trail.

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Offline crewcabrob

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Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 10:26:54 AM »
Thanks Guys!  It was a fun trip.

I actually want to sell the GV and just get a Sami to build up.  I like the GV, but I would have a lot more fun with a locked sami on 33s.

My mother and grandparents still live in Moab, so we try to drive there at least once a year.  Now that my brother has his Jeep, he wants to go there at least twice a year.  For as little as I drive the at home, I could either tow the Sami to Moab/Colorado or endure the pain of driving there a couple of times a year.

Rob



92 Sami, OME YJ SPUA, 15x10 Ultra wheels, 32x11.5x15 MTR/k, Corbeau Moab seats, Shrockworks bumpers and tank skid, Mighty Kong, 6.5:1 gears, hi-rock rails, Bushwacker 6" flares, Rampage tinted top, Grant wheel, Truck-lites LED head lights, PIAA LED driving lights, MOAB Husker Spirit license plate

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Offline Jonny Rash

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Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 03:18:52 PM »
IMHO, a Samurai on 33" tires will probably sit too high for terrain like Moab.  A Samurai has too short of a wheelbase for many Moab obstacles and, unless you kept it SPUA with a virtual lift, 33" tires would make it too tall as well.  You need to stretch the wheelbase out to around 90" for a 33" tire.  When I go back out to Moab, it will be in a stretched Samurai (93" WB) on 33" tires.
25+ years of Samurai ownership!

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Offline FireCkrEd

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Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 06:10:20 AM »
I had no problems with my Sami and 33"s at the 6 EJS's that i've been to. All depends on your driving style and how your setup. I did Potato salad 1 try with 31" all terrains and the next yr I had a heck of a time with 33" mud tires.


                   Ed
93 4dr Kick, stock, + 95 4dr W/TTough kit, Toy axles, 4.24 xfercase gears, 5.71 gears, Ramsey 9500 winch, twin stick xfercase, 33" BFG's
97, 4dr with a 2" lift (needs an engine re-build)
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Offline crewcabrob

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Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 06:22:44 AM »
I had no problems with my Sami and 33"s at the 6 EJS's that i've been to. All depends on your driving style and how your setup. I did Potato salad 1 try with 31" all terrains and the next yr I had a heck of a time with 33" mud tires.


                   Ed

Thanks for chiming in.  Do you think you had more of a chalange with the 33s because of gearing/power or was it a traction issue?

I'm not opposed to running 31s, but 33s would give an additional inch of clearance under the Sami.  Gearing can be brought back into alignment fairly easy with t-case gears.  My plan all along is to run the bushwacker fender flares and trimming the sheet metal to accomidate the larger tires with the least amount of lift possible.  I don't want a huge lift, there are so many unwanted side effects with going BIG.

I would love to stretch a Sami to 90", but I don't see that happening for me.  I thought about looking for a long wheelbase model, but it's hard enought to find a Sami in my area that finding a long one would be slim. 

Any idea what the least amount of lift it would take to fit 33s under  a Sami?

Rob
92 Sami, OME YJ SPUA, 15x10 Ultra wheels, 32x11.5x15 MTR/k, Corbeau Moab seats, Shrockworks bumpers and tank skid, Mighty Kong, 6.5:1 gears, hi-rock rails, Bushwacker 6" flares, Rampage tinted top, Grant wheel, Truck-lites LED head lights, PIAA LED driving lights, MOAB Husker Spirit license plate

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Offline Jonny Rash

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Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 08:43:10 AM »
A basic SPOA and some front inner fender trimming will fit 33" tires.

Yes, you can drive a Samurai with 33" tires on the stock wheelbase at Moab, but it is far from an ideal setup IMHO.  The Sidekicks (2dr and 4dr) with 31" tires do so much better than Samurais out there due to their longer wheelbase, wider track, and most importantly, the COG, which is much lower than a Samurai.  I've been very impressed with them and what they can do out there.

Another thing is that all the new (or revised) trails at Moab are meant for vehicles with a longer wheelbase than a Samurai.  The days of flatfenders/CJ5s running the trails is long gone, and most rigs out there on the trails have a 90"+ wheelbase.  Thus, many of the lines that others take or are marked will quickly tip over an 80" wheelbase Samurai.  IMHO, Samurais are at a pretty big disadvantage on many of the harder trails at Moab.

You really have to pick your lines carefully (not follow others) and simply bypass obstacles that require a longer wheelbase.  For the stock 80" Samurai wheelbase, I would much rather take a Samurai with an Old Man Emu spring/virtual lift/31" tires out there vs SPOA/33" tires.  All IMHO.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 09:01:43 AM by Jonny Rash »
25+ years of Samurai ownership!

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Offline crewcabrob

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Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 09:06:21 AM »
A basic SPOA and some front inner fender trimming will fit 33" tires.

Yes, you can drive a Samurai with 33" tires on the stock wheelbase at Moab, but it is far from an ideal setup IMHO.  The Sidekicks (2dr and 4dr) with 31" tires do so much better than Samurais out there due to their longer wheelbase, wider track, and most importantly, the COG, which is much lower than a Samurai.  I've been very impressed with them and what they can do out there. 

Another thing is that all the new (or revised) trails at Moab are meant for vehicles with a longer wheelbase than a Samurai.  The days of flatfenders/CJ5s running the trails is long gone, and most rigs out there on the trails have a 90"+ wheelbase.  Thus, many of the lines that others take or are marked will quickly tip over an 80" wheelbase Samurai.  IMHO, Samurais are at a pretty big disadvantage on many of the harder trails at Moab.

You really have to pick your lines carefully (not follow others) and simply bypass obstacles that require a longer wheelbase.  For the stock 80" Samurai wheelbase, I would much rather take a Samurai with an Old Man Emu spring/virtual lift/31" tires out there vs SPOA/33" tires.  All IMHO.

I really appreciate all of the great information.  I can't tell you how many Wrangler Unlimitteds were in Moab, they seemed to be on every corner and trail.  I would agree that the short wheelbase is always going to be a hinderance for the Sami.  But for some reason I respect the size of the Sami and can deal with some of the limitations.

31s are way easier to justify.  Not as much lift, lesser drive line angles, better gearing options and of course putting it all togeather will cost less too.

We used to run old flat fenders on the trails when I was younger.  When the first family member got a CJ5 and then CJ7, most of the family switched over too.  Are Samis that tippy?  I guess I never thought about the COG being that high on a Sami.

Thanks,

Rob
92 Sami, OME YJ SPUA, 15x10 Ultra wheels, 32x11.5x15 MTR/k, Corbeau Moab seats, Shrockworks bumpers and tank skid, Mighty Kong, 6.5:1 gears, hi-rock rails, Bushwacker 6" flares, Rampage tinted top, Grant wheel, Truck-lites LED head lights, PIAA LED driving lights, MOAB Husker Spirit license plate

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Offline crewcabrob

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Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2012, 09:09:43 AM »
By the way, can you give me more details on what you consider a "virtual lift" to be?

Rob
92 Sami, OME YJ SPUA, 15x10 Ultra wheels, 32x11.5x15 MTR/k, Corbeau Moab seats, Shrockworks bumpers and tank skid, Mighty Kong, 6.5:1 gears, hi-rock rails, Bushwacker 6" flares, Rampage tinted top, Grant wheel, Truck-lites LED head lights, PIAA LED driving lights, MOAB Husker Spirit license plate

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Offline Jonny Rash

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Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2012, 09:39:09 AM »
Samurais are no more tippy than a CJ5, but the trails have become a lot more extreme since you were younger.  Fuel injection, lockers, super low gearing, along with much bigger tires means that trails that were once hard in an old Jeep, are a cake walk now and people want to be challenged.  I would say that the trails have changed a lot in intensity in just the last 10 years as the sport has gone much more extreme.


A virtual lift is simply trimming the wheelwell sheetmetal so that a larger tire can fit.
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25+ years of Samurai ownership!

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Offline Jonny Rash

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Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2012, 09:41:00 AM »
For example, here is an obstacle at Moab that can't be run with a Samurai with an 80" wheelbase.  I believe this is on Hell's Revenge. 

Discovered the name-Tip Over Challenge.  Yep.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 02:32:45 PM by Jonny Rash »
25+ years of Samurai ownership!

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Offline crewcabrob

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Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2012, 10:28:48 AM »
I remember that there were quite a few trails that long wheel base trucks sure had an advantage on when I was growing up.  I should have paid more attention back then, but when you are young you just live from hill to hill or puddle to puddle. 

We drove by Hells Revenge on the Sand Flats road.  I remember the trail from a time before it had the name.  Actually, a lot of the trails are either named differently or actually have names now.  Back 30 years ago, not many of them had been fomalized.

Actually, Moab has changed a lot since I lived there.  More than the average town by a long way.  Once the MTB guys found it, things moved really fast.  I suspect some of it has happened since the internet, but the mountian bikers really put Moab on the map 20 years ago.

I'm at kind of a crossroads.  I can't improve my GV any more than what it is already without voiding every bit of warranty for the next 6 years.  Of course a Jeep is not out of the question, but I really want to get away from having a car payment for a while.  My wife's Lexus has been paid for for a few years, so that helps.  But our first kids is going to college in 4 days.  The other two kids will follow next year and the year after that.  I figure I can build up a very nice Sami for $7-10k that should handle pretty much everything I would want to do at Moab and still be a daily driver.  I can't do the same with a Jeep.  Simplicity is what I am going for.

Rob
92 Sami, OME YJ SPUA, 15x10 Ultra wheels, 32x11.5x15 MTR/k, Corbeau Moab seats, Shrockworks bumpers and tank skid, Mighty Kong, 6.5:1 gears, hi-rock rails, Bushwacker 6" flares, Rampage tinted top, Grant wheel, Truck-lites LED head lights, PIAA LED driving lights, MOAB Husker Spirit license plate

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Offline Jonny Rash

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Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 11:50:27 AM »
I would enjoy the GV for what it is, a highway friendly, cross country type of vehicle.  It can obviously handle a lot of the mild to moderate trails and it is much more comfortable on & offroad than the primitive Samurai.  I just wish my GV didn't have all that extra body cladding that hangs down so low.

IMHO, it is a lot more difficult to build a Samurai that can run the trails and cruise at 70mph on the hwy than to build a GV to do the same.  70mph is about as fast as you will want to go in a Samurai as the 80" wheelbase handling gets pretty dicey beyond that. The Samurais do have their place though, which is why I have owned one since 1988.   :)


I bet you could recite a pretty detailed, modern history of the Moab trails.  8)  I think a lot of the more extreme trails have really come into use in the last 15-20 years and like you stated, were just an obstacle here or there with no names.  Then as the offroading sport become more extreme and adventurous, trails were developed or refined to incorporate more and more extreme obstacles meant to test lockers, fuel injection, low gearing, suspension articulation etc.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 11:54:45 AM by Jonny Rash »
25+ years of Samurai ownership!

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Offline crewcabrob

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Re: Moab trip with the GV
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2012, 12:22:30 PM »
When I lived out there, uranium was the primary industry in the area.  My step-dad worked in the mines as well as many uncles and second cousins.  After the mining stopped, all the cleanup began and most of the miners that hadn't died went to work in the oil fields.  When the clean up ended, ( it will never be cleaned up) he went to work in the salt mine at Potash.  Now tourism is the main industry: biking, 4 wheeling and visitors from all over the world. 

We didn't spend that much time on the slick rock or in the desert; just too damn hot and Jeeps didnt' have AC.  Some of the family had IH Scouts, and they had AC.  We spent a lot of time in the La Sal mountains camping/fishing/hunting.  When we did go "Jeepin", we picked cloudy days and most of the time had to turn back because of flash floods.
Still, the trails are awesome and I'm really excited to get back to my roots.  It has been years since I have been out on a true Moab trail.  Fins & Things is the quintisential Moab traril.  Sand, rocks, Slick Rock and rock crawling area all about Moab trails.  No water crossings, no mud no trees to drive over, just good ole desert wheelin.

I would be content with 75mph.  Maybe a diesel conversion would get me the power.  Really what I need to do is just build a Sami up and then trailer it out there.  Right now the GV is fine, but I would love to have a Sami.

Rob

92 Sami, OME YJ SPUA, 15x10 Ultra wheels, 32x11.5x15 MTR/k, Corbeau Moab seats, Shrockworks bumpers and tank skid, Mighty Kong, 6.5:1 gears, hi-rock rails, Bushwacker 6" flares, Rampage tinted top, Grant wheel, Truck-lites LED head lights, PIAA LED driving lights, MOAB Husker Spirit license plate