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possible to resleve suzuki blocks?

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Offline bandit86

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possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« on: January 12, 2004, 10:10:28 AM »
Anybody ever done this?  Aluminum blocks (I heard) have replaceble cylinder walls, hence overboring is not required on a rebuild
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Offline Z3bra

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Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2004, 11:43:36 AM »
It is possible in theory, you'd have to bore out the existing sleeves which are cast iron and then have new ones pressed in.  

This is the case on the Suzuki engines anyway, some really high end alloy blocks such as Porsche's (in water cooled engines) use high silica content aluminum and actually have aluminum cylinder walls.  I'm sure there are others that do this too but Porsche is the one I know of offhand that does it that way.  Personally I like the iron sleeve design better myself.

The real catch to doing this would be if new sleeves are available to buy.  If they are, then yes it could be done.  It would also probably be expensive and you'd want to take it to a very good machine shop so that it's done correctly and the new sleeves aren't in there even slightly crooked or it would lead to increased and uneven wear.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2004, 11:45:42 AM by Z3bra »
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Offline Mac

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Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2004, 12:32:25 PM »
is this a 1.6 or a 1.3,and depending on how many miles on the 1.6 I have seen plenty that have only needed to be reringed. 1.3 different story and if it is your better off to sink your money in a 1.6 for a rebuild. when I did my 1.6 20 over it was only $20.00 a hole cdn and 150.00 for pistons and 50.00 for rings, and of course you gasket set.

Mac
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2004, 12:38:07 PM »
yes you can have sleeves pressed in,
but it is expensive. you could have sleeves
machined from DOM tubing, and the block
would have to be machined to seal the coolant
from the oil, not really worth it.
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Offline bandit86

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Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2004, 12:52:36 PM »
I was thinking about overboring the block, getting bigger sleeves put in, going to a 2.0L or so.  That way, I'd still have a suzi engine.
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2004, 04:53:43 PM »
Ya I though about it too, but to get 2.0L
you need more stroke too, increase the
bore by 5mm and the stroke by 6mm
stock bore is 75mm on a 1.6
stock stroke is about 90mm
80mmx96mm would be good for
1930cc, I think you would have to sleeve
the block to get 2.0

You could go to a square engine
90x90mm for 2.3L  2290cc

The cylinder walls are too thin, and sleeves
are too much  :'(
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Offline mrfuelish

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Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2004, 05:18:50 PM »
I think that there is a special coating on the stock bores I was trying to find a link to it but gave up! brent at TrailTough knows about it, give him a call. better to by a used engine.
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2004, 03:08:45 AM »
Ohh, ya take the easy way out and buy a
stock used 2.0 Vitara motor, what fun is that
???
;)
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Offline mrfuelish

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Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2004, 05:46:06 AM »
The prob. is finding a good machine shop around here. I was going to build a couple of 350 chev. engines and I took them over the hill from me and I guess the guy at the shop wanted them real bad and decided to over charge me for the machine work and keep them. they both were a very high nickle content with nodular iron four bolt main caps( rare ) that only came in special high perf. cars prob. someone with a ventage vett. or camero had him looking for them! any way to bore the block and touch up the forged steel crank and balance the assembly (o type rods) it was like 839.00 each just for labor ??? maybe it's been to long but that seems a little high so they ended up   with both engines >:( it is real hard to get rid of a mechanics lien, even the irs can not overide them.
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1987,1988,1988,1990 samurai's,  1953 m38a1,  1996 x-90,blue.1996 x-90 red.1994 2 door tracker.   only Dead Fish go with the flow.                No Hairy Nosed Wombats were ran over on the trail today.       My ZUK is Xenophobic.
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2004, 02:06:36 PM »
 >:( The Bastards >:(

You could take the $$ out in Damage
Muhoohaahaa
::)
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Offline mrfuelish

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Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2004, 02:32:29 PM »
But ya look at the bright side, with out an engine for my heep I picked up a samurai to drive in the mean time and ended up likeing the zuk better even though the heep had a 350 vortec and 35's and could pull the front tires off of the ground and got 28 mpg it was to big and I could not see too well over the hood and stuff and there big on mudflaps here now they want all four of them :-/ and that would just look too stupid, I did keep the rims off of it and found some boggers i'm trying to trade for(to play in the yard),they bolt up to the samurai. I did get rid of the buckshots and the mudterrains they were just too tall!  Sorry for the highjack ::) Dennis.
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1987,1988,1988,1990 samurai's,  1953 m38a1,  1996 x-90,blue.1996 x-90 red.1994 2 door tracker.   only Dead Fish go with the flow.                No Hairy Nosed Wombats were ran over on the trail today.       My ZUK is Xenophobic.
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jdraper

Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2004, 11:29:23 PM »
Don't even think of trying to re-sleeve the motor.  I work with several automotive manufacturers, and know the process of how the motors are assembled.  First, for most standard aluminum block production motors, the cast iron sleeves are made of a high silica content iron which you probably won't be able to get commercially at a viable price.  Second, the sleeves usually aren't pressed in, they are cast in.  To promote good heat transfer and proper sealing, the sleeves are hung in the aluminum mold, and the aluminum is poured in around them.  The final machining is done with the sleeve in the block so that any misalignment that occured during the molding process can be eliminated.  The chances for a successful re-sleeve are practically nil.

FYI, some of the equipment I have designed is in several automotive manufacturing facilities being used to inspect the cylinder liners for cracking/pitting before they are cast into the engines.
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Offline Yankee Tim

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Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2004, 11:46:33 PM »
Quote
I was going to build a couple of 350 chev. engines... they both were a very high nickle content with nodular iron four bolt main caps( rare ) that only came in special high perf. cars prob. someone with a ventage vett. or camero had him looking for them!)


1970 Chevy Kingswood Estate stationwagons with the tow package has the coveted 350 4-bolts.  My dad had one.

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Offline brlj

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Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2004, 12:22:29 AM »
Have a friend go down and ask for a price list for their machine work they do. Machine shops will have a list of what it costs to do the work and how much a hour they charge. If the difference is way off take the list and your friend and go to court. $800 to bore and hone a block and turn a crank is way off.

Later,
Bill
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Offline Z3bra

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Re: possible to resleve suzuki blocks?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2004, 12:47:03 AM »
I agree with brlj, have someone you know go get their price list (preferrably in writing).  If they shanked you, contact the Attorney General in your state because that sort of business practice is most likely illegal and they might be able to get any excess charges back or make them charge you their standard rates for the work performed.

If they tried to hold the mechanic's lien over your head illegally you could probably sue the hell out of them and they could even be prosecuted criminally for their actions. (Sounds a lot like extortion/blackmail ya know?)  Now by the sound of it this happened a while ago so you may be past the statute of limitations, if you're not though at the very least take them to small claims court (go directly for the owner of the place if you can).  

If they don't show you'll win by default and if you do then you can put a lien on the guy's house or any other real property he owns.  Worst case if he ever moves he'll have to pay you whatever you won in the suit.  Go for the max amount your state's small claims system will allow as a punitive damages on top of whatever you estimate the blocks were worth because of the guy trying to use shady business practices for his own gain. (Again the blackmail/extortion with the threat of a mechanic's lien).

Might not get the full amount, but if you only ask for a little that's all you'll get at best.

Worst case you're out 25 bucks for a filing fee (or thereabouts depending what your state charges). And a couple hours of your time.  If you have some good evidence such as their normal price list for work and the guy does show up but can't legitimately account for the inflated charges you'll still win.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2004, 12:54:57 AM by Z3bra »
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