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Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?

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Offline Yankee Tim

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Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« on: November 20, 2003, 12:00:37 AM »
Anyone thunk of this?

The GV's front brakes are bigger than those on 4dr Kicks, and so are the rear drums.  Appears to be bolt on.

Food for thought.
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Offline Fredo

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2003, 01:02:04 AM »
Yeah, but on the GV you can't roll another wheels than oem :( Because the caliper are too big for other wheels.

Fredo
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Offline ebewley

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2003, 01:05:35 AM »
Quote
Anyone thunk of this?

The GV's front brakes are bigger than those on 4dr Kicks, and so are the rear drums.  Appears to be bolt on.

Food for thought.


Yeah, won't work the axle flange is slightly different and thus the drum and backing plate are off. Maybe with a smidge of machining. But didn't you have trouble getting aftermarket wheels for the GV because of funky wheel interference? FWIW:  I use the larger 4dr Sidekick rear (completely bolt on) and regular 2 dr front. Result, I can slide 33" MT/Rs on dry pavement.

-Eric
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Offline Yankee Tim

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2003, 03:44:37 AM »
Quote


Yeah, won't work the axle flange is slightly different and thus the drum and backing plate are off. Maybe with a smidge of machining. But didn't you have trouble getting aftermarket wheels for the GV because of funky wheel interference? FWIW:  

-Eric




I didn't take out the calipers to measure the bolt  holes on the backing plate.  But yer prolly right.  The rear would also need flanged shafts.

On the front, yeah, you would need a spacer to run other tham OEMs.  I just didn't want to buy spacer AND rims.  But if I already had the rims...  Since the 4dr rears are and upgrade for a 2-dr rear, I thought the GV front might add more powere there too.  Spacers wold make it happen, and give you the wider track.

Just brain fartin' ::)

Quote
I use the larger 4dr Sidekick rear (completely bolt on) and regular 2 dr front. Result, I can slide 33" MT/Rs on dry pavement.


Yeah.  But if more is good, morer is gooder!
« Last Edit: November 20, 2003, 03:49:20 AM by Yankee_Tim »
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2003, 04:46:44 PM »
Aww heck why not go to twin front calipers,
morer is gooder  ;)
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Offline Z3bra

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2003, 12:52:00 AM »
Why mess around with mediocre slider style factory calipers when you could use some nice 4 piston Wilwoods or AP Racing calipers?  Now that would be a sweet conversion.  

Wilwoods are pretty reasonable at about 100-150 per caliper depending which model.  The only downside is that there are no piston dust seals on the Wilwoods. Just the actual seal between the caliper body and the piston itself.  I'm not sure it's a big problem, lots of dirt track racers use them and only rebuild about once a year, just clean em off good if you go wheeling.  

AP racing calipers are really nice too and have dust seals but they cost a lot more than the Wilwoods do.

Pretty much all we'd need is some adapters machined for the the caliper mounting to take the rotor diameter and bolt spacing into account.  Would be nice to use some Wilwood rotors too but that would require custom rotor hats and cost more.  It would work really well though and you'd have some serious braking power for probably 600 bucks or so if you included the custom hats and Wilwood rotors, or about $300 just for custom calipers and adapters.
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2003, 01:00:54 AM »
OK break the mold, Volvo uses some of the best brake
stuff around, I had 4 piston calipers on an old '75 164
and I bet they are mo cheaper out of the pick your part
:)
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Offline Z3bra

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2003, 02:04:44 AM »
That's not a bad way to go either. Junkyard parts can be pretty good if you know what to look for.

A couple of benefits to the Wilwoods is they're aluminum and lightweight and the pad compund choices are pretty nice with a  good coefficient of friction even on the colder temp compounds.  There's also racing pads available although why you'd want or need em on a street driven 4x4 is beyond me.  Gotta get the racing ones nice and warm before they start to work very well.  On the upside they'd probably last a really long time.  Granted, this does you absolutely no good if you can't stop your vehicle when you want/need to.

Anyway, some other good Junkyard calipers here:

Toyota 4x4's from 79-83 use a 4 piston sumitomo caliper too.  It's a popular swap on Datsun 240/260/280z's as it's literally a direct bolt on. (They use the 2 piston version of the same caliper from the factory). As a result they are somewhat hard to find. I've got a pair in the garage for my Z so I could see if the bolts line up and if the offset is even remotely close to see if that might be a relatively easy swap. Doubt it'll be as easy as it is on the Z even if it is feasable of course.  

Even if you buy some remanufactured ones they're only about 70 bucks and if you buy them at chain stores that employ people who don't actually know anything about cars (autozone, checker/shucks/kragen etc) They'll take pretty much anything back as a core.  Yes that's a dirty trick to play,  shame on me.  But it did provide an inexpensive way for me to upgrade to a gear reduction starter on my Datsun.  ;D

Later V6 4x4 Toyotas use a bigger version of the 4 piston caliper that will accomodate vented rotors.  It's 4 runners and the regular pickup up through the early 90's for that one.

Put some Porterfield R4S pads in there and you're set.  (granted the R4S pads if they were available for our stock 2 or 4 door calipers would probably be a big improvement by themselves)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2003, 02:16:04 AM by Z3bra »
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2003, 02:32:37 AM »
I was looking for a set of Carbon Metalics for my Zuke,
no luck, so I'd be interested in any replacement pad
with a better stopping grip, tho pads that wear out in
10,000 miles are too much of a pain.

So what are these Porterfield R4S pads you speak of.
A custom reline could be made perhaps ???
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Offline Z3bra

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2003, 03:36:48 AM »
Porterfield is the company, R4S is the compound (S being for street use) it's pretty popular with the performance car folks.  I think they might do custom relines if you're willing to send them in your old backing plates.  No idea on the cost for that but most of their sets are in the 50-100 dollar range per axle.  

I believe the R4S is a carbon/kevlar type pad.

Their website is www.porterfield-brakes.com.

No Zuk/Tracker listing though.

They also sell Hawk brake pads which you would probably want the "blue" compound on.
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95XL7

Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2003, 09:12:49 AM »

What is needed to swap 4door vented rotors and calipers to a 2door? How about the rears? ???

I could use some extra stopping power with the extra weight up front.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2003, 09:14:13 AM by 95XL7 »
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Offline ebewley

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2003, 10:14:54 AM »
Quote

What is needed to swap 4door vented rotors and calipers to a 2door? How about the rears? ???

I could use some extra stopping power with the extra weight up front.


Welcome 95XL7,

Glad you joined. I'm doing the 2.7 swap and would like to pick your brain about that... Anyway, another thread perhaps...

What I did for the rear brakes was use a 97-98 5-bolt flanged axle and then used the larger backing plate and drums off of the 4-door model. It was all there on a wrecked 4-door donor. Nothing needed to be modified.

I think that there is a possibility of using a later in the year 96 4-door that has the 4 bolt to 5 on 5.5 adapter drums in the same larger size but I'm only 50% sure on this. Some junk yardin' is in order... :) That way you could use your current axles.

The brakes are quite a bit larger and really help slow the rig down.

Good luck, Eric
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95XL7

Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2003, 01:14:40 AM »
 ???But what about putting the front vented style rotors on the 2door? Could it just be different rotors,calipers and caliper brackets? I really want to change the front first,those solid rotors seem to get hot and warp faster.
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2003, 03:29:32 PM »
The 4 Door brakes are vented, and yes they work on a
2 door, bigger calipers work to slow much better, they
would also work with the solid rotors, but why use solid
when vented are out there.
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Offline Z3bra

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2003, 11:14:26 PM »
Vented is always better, more mass to absorb the heat energy and more surface area to dissipate it afterwards.

Get a set cross drilled or slotted and some better compound pads so we all need to start calling Porterfield and/or Hawk Brakes and start asking for them to generate demand.  

I found a place that sells a -3 sized stainless brake line crimping machine (does up to -6 lines too with different dies so something like Braided stainless A/C or power steering lines would be doable too)  I need to measure it up but if I could get enough people willing to buy a set of braided stainless lines for Tracks/Kicks I seriously might consider buying it (It's not cheap unfortunately).

I'm guessing with the fittings and good quality teflon lines a set would probably be in the $150-$180 range since we have a lot of flex lines on the Trackers and Kicks.  If I could get 15 or 20 confirmed people that would buy a set of stainless lines in that price range I'll very seriously consider buying the crimper.  Heck if I can get enough initial interest in stainless sets to basically pay for the crimper I'd be willing to sell the kits at cost till the crimper's paid off.

Of course since I'm going to be making these in my garage they will not be DOT legal and I'll probably have a big ugly disclaimer I'll make you sign in order to buy them.  (Not so much worried about you guys as I am about insurance companies and their seemingly endless teams of attorneys if you were to get in a wreck.)  Damn the litigious nature of our modern society I say!

Anyone interested? I could do Samurai sets too, haven't looked into the availability of those aftermarket but if I could get some measurements off of and fittings are available I'm certainly up for doing a set of those too.
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