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96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.

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Offline stone

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96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« on: November 16, 2011, 06:31:37 AM »
Hey Guys/Gals

So to start off I have a 96 sidekick JX 1.6 with a cold air intake.

About a week or so ago i was going to back out of my drive way and my sidekick started to buck, and stalled hard. i figured it was just something i did or it might of been cold. so i turned it over and gave it a shot of gas, it got very boggy for a second then went to it normal idle and truck seemed to work fine. after about 2 hours of driving i went to back out of a dive way on a little hill and it did the buck and stall trick again. so in order to get out of the drive way i had to rev it high and gun it in reverse. Then it seemed to work fine again. Two days later i went to take it for a drive again and it was really hard to start, and it wasn't very cold out at all. once it finally turned over with a few pumps of gas it started to do the sputtering again so i gave it a hard shot of gas and it bogged really low on the rpms and sputtered, i let off the gas and it idled normal, i gave it a shot of gas and it did the bogged really low on the rpms and sputtered again. finally after about 4 or 5 times it worked normal. I went out for something to eat and of course a car parked in front of me so i had to back up and i couldn't because it kept bucking and stalling, so i had to leave it there all night. i went out the next day and the same thing happened over again. hard to start, more so then the last time, so i went to pull away forward and it bogged out again, it was very hard to pull away, kept stalling and sputtering. i let it idle for about 30 min and finally i was able to drive home. when i got home i noticed one of the O2 sensors(the one after the cat) was cracked off and hanging(was told this might cause a cell to show but not causing any issue with performance). I also noticed my speedo cable was pulled out as well. So today i threw it on the scanner and at first i got 7 cells

P0102 - MAF Circuit Voltage Low
P0141 - HO2S Heater Circuit Malfunction
P0135 - HO2S Heater Circuit Malfunction
P0500 - VSS Malfunction
P1408 - MDP Sensor Circuit Malfunction
P0141 - HO2S Heater Circuit Malfunction
P0135 - HO2S Heater Circuit Malfunction
and 4 different non-continuous monitors showing O(Oxygen Sensor Monitor) C(Catalyst Monitor) E(EGR System Monitor) EV(EVAP System Monitor)

I cleared the codes and turned it over and the check engine light came on again so i plugged in the reader again and this time got 2 cells

P0102 - MAF Circuit Voltage Low
P0135 - HO2S Heater Circuit Malfunction
and 5 different non-continuous monitors showing O(Oxygen Sensor Monitor) C(Catalyst Monitor) E(EGR System Monitor) EV(EVAP System Monitor) OH(oxygen Sensor Heater Monitor)

So i took it for a drive, everything seemed fine, when i got home i decided to plug the reader in again and check the cells, this time i got 4 cells

P0102 - MAF Circuit Voltage Low
P0135 - HO2S Heater Circuit Malfunction
P0141 - HO2S Heater Circuit Malfunction
P0135 - HO2S Heater Circuit Malfunction
and 4 different non-continuous monitors showing O(Oxygen Sensor Monitor) C(Catalyst Monitor) E(EGR System Monitor) EV(EVAP System Monitor)

Ive been reading about each one and all the different things i need to do, but was wondering if anyone knew a fast was to diagnose some of the problems. or if where some of the problems are showing up multiple times with different number it means something is definitely dead. or if where i cleared the cells and there not coming back i shouldn't worry about those issues. I basically need a starting point.

Hope to hear from you guys.

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Offline talonxracer

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2011, 07:10:16 AM »
Remove and clean the EGR system components. It also wouldnt hurt to replace the fuel filter if it hasnt been. The secondary o2 sensor is required with OBDII systems, it verifies that the cat is functioning.
Tim "the toolman" Taylor is my HERO !!!

The only GOOD Commie is the commie taking a dirt nap....

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Offline ranger88den

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2011, 08:50:14 AM »
When you installed your cold air intake, did you delete the MAF or fail to reconnect?

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Offline stone

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 06:11:22 AM »
hey everyone,
thanks for the help yesterday.

so i went out yesterday to clean my EGR system components. i started to remove some hoses and as i was disconnecting some hoses i noticed that hose (37) here ( http://kick-fix.com/sensors/EGR/96P-16L-EGR-vac.JPG ) was missing half of the hose so i put a new piece of hose on it, tried to run the sidekick again and it ran worse. it only idled at about 300-500rpm. when i gave it a shot of gas it seemed to respond well but when i let off the gas it would almost cut out then catch itself just before and idle again at 3-500rpm. so i decided check all the other hoses and one was disconnected. i checked it while running and it does suck air. but i looked every where for where it is supposed to be connected and couldn't find it.(ill post picture "A" below and show the hose). so i figured ill still clean the EGR system and maybe ill find where the hose connects too. so i took it all apart and it was packed with carbon buildup. everything is all clean and put back together but i still didn't notice where this hose would connect too. was wondering if anyone knew where it connected. also i took a quick picture of the engine so see if anyone can spot a possible hose connected wrong or something?

ranger88den the cold air was on it when i bought it. at the time the MAF was not connected and it couldn't stay running at all, and kept sputtering and bucking under idle. so i connected it and it ran great.





thanks again guys for the help

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Offline SnoFalls

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 06:39:54 AM »
what's the other end of the "disconnected" hose hooked to?

if it wasn't sucking vacuum I'd almost think it's the diff breather (which BTW, I was unable to spot in your photos).
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it.

Buy-it, Build-it, Beat-it, Part-it

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Offline stone

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 08:51:16 AM »
the diff breather is there... its just down lower.. the end of the hose is connected to a small canister like really small and then it goes to the other hose which is running to the T splitter and going to the intake. in the first picture u can see where the other hose is going to the T connector.

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Offline stone

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 09:02:42 AM »
here is a picture of what the hose is connected too.


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Offline SnoFalls

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2011, 09:27:59 AM »
PM me your VIN so I can lookup to see if you have a Cal vs Fed ...

Also, is the under hood "vacuum diagram still legible?

The kick-fix jpg you linked might not be *exactly* your configuration ...

<edit>
nevermind, it doesn;t look like E03 and E33 had anydifferences ...
you may just have to start identifying each vacuum line from each component and see where something is amiss.
I'd start with the 2 Vacuum solenoid valves at the front of the plenum and make sure they are correct, then look at the evap cannister and the various hoses off it, then ....
I *think* your disconnected hose is coming off #50 ("air cut off valve")
</edit>
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 09:51:38 AM by SnoFalls »
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it.

Buy-it, Build-it, Beat-it, Part-it

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Offline stone

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2011, 02:29:23 PM »
hey SnoFalls thanks for the reply,
so i found the vacuum diagram under my hoow, covered in gunk, but cleaned it was legible and it comes from the "tank pressure control solenoid vacuum valve" and goes to the "tank pressure control valve" its dark out now but looking around i didnt see the "tank pressure control valve". now my question is, would this cause my problems? if not im back to square one.

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Offline SnoFalls

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2011, 03:03:19 PM »
In order of important things to deal with ...

1) the MAF
Sounds like you got that connected, but it could still be "damaged". They are fragile, and the previous owner might have hurt it. I hope not, because they aint cheap, but since you reconnected it at least it runs. I have my manuals packed away at the moment, but I do recall a "bench test" for it, hopefully someone can provide a pointer there.
2) the vacuum leaks
Seems like you're getting close. I'd say just plug the "disconnected hose" with a golf tee (or whatever). At least the leak is plugged and then later you can verify that all vacuum hoses are properly routed/connected
3) the after cat 02
This will not be fun/cheap to pull/replace, but you really should get that fixed. Someone else might chime in with a "delete it fix" (e.g. a resistor or some such to fake it like "all is fine").
4) the EGR
Sounds like you've gone through the process of cleaning gunk, but it's unclear if you dealt with the passage that runs from the exhaust header through the block to the EGR valve. That passage is a PITA to get clear (without pulling the exhaust manifold), but can be done with lots of carb cleaner and a stick of wire.

I think you really need to address #1, #2, and #3 (to the best you can), and then clear codes, and run to see what comes back.

Otherwise, the ECU is likely to simply go into "limp mode" and start dumping fuel into the intake (which IMO explains your running symptoms).

The EGR problems shouldn't cause "limp mode", but is an annoying code throw (plenty here have that t-shirt).

Also, if you just plug the vacuum leak (without finding the proper routing of the various vac lines), may or may not result in "limp mode". For example, if the evap cannister isn't functioning properly, a code will be thrown, but you won't be in "limp mode". Then again if some important sensor is missing its vac, whammo "limp mode".

Good luck, and hope this is helpful.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it.

Buy-it, Build-it, Beat-it, Part-it

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Offline SnoFalls

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2011, 03:29:06 PM »
Oh, and talonxracer had a good suggestion about the fuel filter.

That very well could explain the symptoms, but it also seems that at a minimum #1, #2 above are also major issues I would go after first.

Rent/borrow a fuel pressure gauge, it'll be a pretty good indicator of whether you need to look there (IMHO).
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it.

Buy-it, Build-it, Beat-it, Part-it

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Offline talonxracer

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2011, 05:00:35 PM »
I have a 98' sidekick and will check out that hose in the morning and verify where it is supposed to connect to.
Tim "the toolman" Taylor is my HERO !!!

The only GOOD Commie is the commie taking a dirt nap....

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Offline talonxracer

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2011, 07:14:12 AM »
OK that disconnected line is a vacuum line to the evap valve. On the charcoal canister there is a larger hose coming out of the bottom of the charcoal can and aims towards the firewall. At the end of the hose there is the evap solenoid(I think it is called evap solenoid) and that vacuum line connects to the top of that valve.
Tim "the toolman" Taylor is my HERO !!!

The only GOOD Commie is the commie taking a dirt nap....

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Offline stone

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2011, 01:03:22 PM »
so an update on things. i took and cleaner the whole EGR system apart again, cleaned it all, i also cleaned the passage to the EGR valve. used tuns of carb cleaner made sure everything was good and clean and no ports clogged. put it all together, started it up and it was sputtering/bogging but i could hear something sparking when ever it started to sputter and at random times when i gave it a shot of gas. it was sparking from the distributor cap. there was a spot wore on it and had a little crack. so i replaced the distributor cap and not its still bogging/sputtering, but this time its only happening when the peddle it pushed in a tiny little way, like if regular idle is 1000 and i put the peddle in to say 1050rpm its starts to bog out and the rpms start to drop and if i keep pushing till say when it should be at 1100-1150 the rpms it keeps bogging lower to about 2-300rmps then start to climb and then run good. when I'm driving the same thing happens when I'm switching gears or driving but the gas is only pressed that little bit. i never got about to the fuel filter yet hopefully tomorrow. but it seems like its a fuel issue at this point, the top end of the gas if fine its only at the start it seems. i took at look at the filter it is rusted to shit so I'm hoping this will be my answer. Oh and thanks talonxracer i got that hose hooked up .

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Offline stone

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Re: 96 sidekick issues, when it rain it pours.
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2011, 11:42:44 AM »
i got out for a bit today, was able to get the fuel filter on, it seems to have gotten worse. now it starts and sits at a nice 1000rpms idle but once i start to slowly put gas to it the rmps climb but it still sputtering. then at about 3000rpms its dies really low again to about 800rpms then will slowly climb again and then eventually run normal at about 4000rmps. then if i let off the gas and try again. same thing happens. so now i don't know where to go from here.