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Only starts with either? why

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Offline truckasaurus44

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2004, 09:58:43 AM »
could be that the pump isn't priming the engine when the ignition is initially turned on.  With the engine off, turn the ignition on but don't crank the engine.  you should hear the pump run for a few seconds.  upon the engine running, the pump may start working but be dead while starting
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Offline szabotage

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2004, 10:05:20 AM »
I had this problem before, when I did a 1.6 swap into my dad's zuk, I started with the fuel pump, then to the filter, then to the line going in to the throttle body and all was ok.then I checked the return line , no fuel coming out so I concluded the problem was with the injector

first I proceeded to check the ECM. i plugged it into another truck to verify it was working sure enough it did, so I put the ecm back and checked the injector, sure enough it checked out ok(within spec) next step was to check the wires make sure I was getting a pulse, that's where the problem lyed.

no pulse meant there's a problem with the wires since the ECM checked out fine. sure enough, after going over the wires, it turned out the brown/black wire that connects to the ign. coil was on the pos. side instead of the neg. after switching it around it worked out fine.

I'm not saying that this is your problem but if you go through what I did systematically I guarantee you'll find your problem. you know you have spark so it is either your fuel delivery or a back up in your injector circuit. good luck
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Offline szabotage

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2004, 10:11:32 AM »
Quote


It is a throttle body and their is no spray. Im waiting for her to get home to check the fuel pump.

Mike


I just read this post, what you wanna do is remove the fuel line going in to the throttle body( 2 10 mm bolts) and see if their is a pressure build up, but be aware this can be dangerous and messy, make sure to wear goggles and a rag handy to prevent fuel from spraying everywhere,  if theirs a pressure then you pump is fine. just to double check I'd turn the key to start just to make sure its pushing as well.

I'd go on to why your injector isn't firing if the fuel thing checks out

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Offline jerryp58

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2004, 10:12:37 AM »
Quote


It is a throttle body and their is no spray. Im waiting for her to get home to check the fuel pump.

Mike


How about once it's running?  There should be a very well defined cone of fuel coming out of the injector.  If not, maybe the injector is clogged or something.  If so, then maybe it is some kind of priming type of problem.
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Offline szabotage

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2004, 10:20:49 AM »
he said it only runs when he squirts ether down the throttle body which confirms the spark so there was never any conical spray coming from the injector unless I misread

did you put the ether in the tank or down the TB?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2004, 10:28:57 AM by szabotage »
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Offline jerryp58

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2004, 11:04:50 AM »
The original post stated...

Quote
...it only starts with starting fluid...   ...Once its running you can drive it all day...


I'm wondering if the injector spray looks conical once it's running.
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Jerry
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Offline whitfield

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2004, 11:06:36 AM »
Seems like maybe the injector pulse is received from an alternate source on once the truck is up and running.  (Like the pump relay, pre start source / run source).  Maybe the initial pulse source is bad.  An injector noid light would verify that the injector is receiving a pulse on start up.  

If it is getting the pulse then it is a fuel delivery problem.

Just don't think a fuel delivery problem would allow it to run around fine after it starts.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2004, 11:07:39 AM by whitfield »
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2004, 02:06:50 PM »
I never could see a cone shaped spray
of fuel from my injector, I could see some
spots hitting the throttle plate tho.

Ether is a spray, I've never heard of putting
it in the fuel tank.

On my 89' you can "hot wire" the fuel pump
relay so it runs all the time, I think it was with
the key on only tho, this would confirm a fault
in the priming pre start opperation of the pump.

I can hear my pump run for about 2-3 seconds
when I first turn the key to the run position, it then
stops if the engine is not started, it's a saftey thing
in case of an accident the fuel pump doesn't keep
running

Good Luck

Wild
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Offline jerryp58

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2004, 02:37:24 PM »
Quote
I never could see a cone shaped spray
of fuel from my injector


Hmmmm.... I must be lucky with mine then (knock wood), it's a perfect cone as far as I can tell.
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Jerry
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2004, 11:50:31 PM »
Quote


I think that depends on the year. On my '89 the pump didn't turn on until the start signal was received from the turning of the key. Then once the engine was started and had oil pressure, the ECM kept the fuel pump relay active.
-Eric


I think that is where the problem lies. The ECU is probably not receiving the Start signal. Either the pump is not running or there is no fuel enrichment or timing corrections happening. If it will run OK after it has started then the fuel pump must be OK. I have a vague recollection that the Start signal comes from an extra set of contacts on the end of the ignition barrel but I may be thinking of another vehicle. I will check the manual when I get home
« Last Edit: September 15, 2004, 11:54:33 PM by Rhinoman »
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GRVIT

Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2004, 04:51:29 AM »
In my case when my truck could not start but ignition was ok,the fuel pump of not working.A simple way to find out if its working apart from trying to hear the pump noise 1 or 2 secs after you turn the ignition key,is to use a polymeter.Put the two contacts of the polymeter (black-red) to the corresponding two contacts of the fuel pump (dont know how difficult this is,I have'nt raised my fuel tank) and see if the electrical circuit is o.k.
Or just use a portable charger/battery and put the 2 outputs(red -black) to the ones the pump has.If  its ok,you should hear it working.

But again ,I think that if it is the fuel pump,then how the truck can operate properly after the engine starts ....

An other time I had this problem ,(and the sumptom was the same,that is when the engine started,it worked o.k) ,the solution was to change a relay (dont know if I spell it right) ,a fuse anyway (looks like a square of glass about an 1/2 inch
each side.This fuse is visible without opening something
and its close to the front left (passenger side) head light in the engine room,somewhere close to the radiator's upper left side.
These are some hints o.k ?  I m not a mechanic,I just remember what my mechanic was talking about then....
« Last Edit: September 16, 2004, 04:53:53 AM by GRVIT »
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Offline paps133

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2004, 03:52:37 PM »
hey man not that it matters or any thing but you've hit your 1000 post, just to let you know. i know waste of time but i wanted to say it because i saw it. pierre
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Offline Mikerpm4x4

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2004, 12:46:41 PM »
Quote
hey man not that it matters or any thing but you've hit your 1000 post, just to let you know. i know waste of time but i wanted to say it because i saw it. pierre

Yea... still a long way to catch up with Zukpilot! Man that guy babbles!  :P Jk Zig

Mike

I will get back to you guys in a couple of days and let you know what we find. Thanks for all the help. Lots of good ideas to check out. Im not really that good a this kinda stuff.

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Offline Zukipilot

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2004, 11:48:54 PM »
Quote

Yea... still a long way to catch up with Zukpilot! Man that guy babbles!  :P Jk Zig

Mike



bla bla bla, blabla, bla! Babble,babble, babble ;D ;D ;D
Tranlsation; one more for you to catch up to ;)
Zig
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Offline Mikerpm4x4

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Re: Only starts with either? why
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2004, 02:41:00 PM »
Well we have fuel pressure. I removed the fuel line and turned the key to the start position and we have pressure. I just noticed a clicking noise from a relay under the dash. At the same time the injector and one other thingy by the timing belt. The blue thingy next to the red thingy... ::).The relay is right next to the ecm. I used a test light to compare the problem tracker to the working one and the pink wire with the black stripe blinks with the key in the run position while it is steady on in the good tracker.

Any more things you can think of? ::)

BTW we swapped the relays. We also tried push starting it and that works too.  ::) Yep here come the jokes.  :P\

Mike
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