will it start when hot without
starting fluid

Wild

Nope. You can drive it all day, shut it off and it wont restart.

Mike

   I hate a problem I can't solve
Grr
Wild

 I hate a problem I can't solve
Grr
Wild

No kiddin! How often do you see me post asking questions on how to fix one of these?!   I think this is the first.

This is a puzzler.

I didn't see if you pulled the return fuel line & saw if gas was coming from it.

You did have fuel flowing, with engine off, and ignition turned on? Did you try a pressure guage?

Does it even make an attempt to start (sputter or crank faster)? Did you try the throttle in different positions when cranking?

After reading all the post i think you had fuel delivery with key in start position. Why dont you try to hot wire the fuel pump so it ran all the time and then start the engine. There should be fuel coming out of the injector also.
If there is no fuel, i suspect that the ECU is not getting power with key in start but you still get spark in ignition because it is not control by ECU. The fuel pump also are not control by ECU.
With ECU unplug, turn key to ON and check for power in the pin with test light. You can check every pin to find out which is power. Then turn the key to start to see if there is power in the same pin or any other pin. All this is done with the ECU disconnected.
You can also do this on the good tracker to verify the result.

Hope this help

OK, when it runs, it runs well, correct?  It's not running too rich or anything?

When you spray ether down the TB to start it, do you open the butterfly?  I assume you've pressed on the gas pedal and not pressed on the gas pedal when trying to start w/o ether.

Is there a chance there's some really weird vacuum problem or TB gasket leak that's keeping the fuel from getting down the runners (or some of the runners)?

Just throwing some thoughts out

Mike,
I asked my freind Scott (the one that helps me with all the stuf I do to my Kick) to look at this thread and give us some ideas. Here is a copy of the email he sent me last night.
HTH.
Zig

I read through all the posts and these are my conclusions:

"next question is did you get fuel coming out of the return line? if not then the problem may lie in the injector. "

Don't follow this line of thinking!!  Fuel injection is based on a pressurized closed loop system.  It is dependent upon fuel pressure NOT FLOW RATE.  There will always be fuel returning to the tank even when the injectors are working max cap ( though less at WOT)  The return flow is controled by the regulator. SLowing the return rate to the tank down in turn allows for higher pressures and greater volume at the injector. The problem could actually be an injector but this is NOT the way to test it!   besides that, if none were coming out of the return line then ALL would be dumping into the injector and you would notice that for sure!!    Anyway-

I was all with the guy who wanted mike to hard wire the pump "perma on" and test start it until mike said  
" I removed the fuel line and turned the key to the start position and we have pressure."

OK where is that pressure?  ie... where did you remove the fuel line to check)  If you did so at the inlet to the throttle body and were actually in the CRANK position (not run)  and found a good amount of pressure, its not a fuel delivery at startup problem. Injectors don't "know" the difference between start and run (so not an injector problem at this point)  but the ECM that controls the injectors does.  Where is the ECM triggered from?  Crank sense, cam sense, Hall effect in the distributor?  I'm not familiar enough with a kick to know but sensory inputs can be faulty and not read unless voltage (the voltage it is sensing at the sensor not like what is in the battery)  is above a certain level.  

Some people said there is a differnt ECM mode for start versus run.  If that is true it may hold the injector open longer at start, when functioning properly I mean.  That would require a true CRANK pulse and can only come from the starter or the switch.  I would look in the manual at the ECM diagram and look for a crank trigger into the ECM and verify that it is present in the CRANK position.  As for the relay toggle he heard when going from run to start - if I understood that correctly and that is what he is encountering-  That is probably normal.  A lot of circuits shut down during crank to conserve battery life and protect from eractic spikes or voltage drops (watch your radio and heater while you start the car).  All said  and not being there, it sounds to me like an electrical problem.  The ECM wants to "see" something happen at startup that isn't there.  Something like a signal from the starter or a series of pulses from the dist. to tell it that rpm is above the x level and now I'm running so switch modes.  If you got a manual we can definately walk through it no prob.

Now after all that watch it be a muddobber nest in the injector!!!! ha

And another from Scott:

Something else he could try, take volt ohm meter(multimeter) and set it to AC and connect across the two wires at the injector.  With the coil wire pulled at the dist, hold the key to crank  and watch for about 2 to 4 volts AC at the injector.  If this is present, ummm well i don't know for sure what next??  But if its not then it is a controls problem from the ECM for sure!!!

later

One other thing he mentioned when he called last night was the possibility of loosing signal through a bad ignition switch. If a bad conection in the ignition switch was not sending/or sending low voltage while in the 'crank' position it could possibably not trigger the fuel pump/injector etc (like a bad battery connection will give you power to aux. items but when you hit the starter it sparks out.

I have had problems with the whole ignition assembly on the steering wheel that caused crazy shit before so I think this could be a good possibility. Like currently if I hit my hazard lights or right blinker, my wipers turn on and run untill I turn the blinker off :-/

HTH,
Zig

I have had problems with the whole ignition assembly on the steering wheel that caused crazy shit before so I think this could be a good possibility. Like currently if I hit my hazard lights or right blinker, my wipers turn on and run untill I turn the blinker off :-/

HTH,
Zig

(offtopic)
Speaking of crazy things with the steering column, whenever I turn on the head lights in my Tracker, the seatbelt light comes on

The Track/Kick has a hall effect sensor in the distributor, Suzuki refer to it as the Crank Angle Sensor but it cannot differentiate between cylinders. I will email myself now to remind me to check the FSM, there is a Start signal but I can't remember if it is from the starter solenoid or the ignition switch. The ECU changes the ignition timing, fuel enrichment and ISC duty cycle when the Start signal is present.

FSM states:
Hard or no starting (Engine cranks OK)
   -shortage of fuel in fuel tank
   -faulty fuel pump or its circuit open
   -Injector or its circuit defective
   -Fuel pressure out of spec
   -Faulty air valve
   -Open starter signal circuit
   -Faulty throttle opener system
   -Poor performance of WTS,ATS or pressure sensor
   -Faulty ECM

Strike out 1
2 -check for fuel pressure at return hose for 3 secs after ignition switch on.
Strike out 3 as it runs OK once started
4 - needs a fuel pressure gauge
5 - Take cap off when cold, valve should be open, take cap off when hot, valve should be closed
6 - Remove plug from ECU, measure voltage on coupler (B11)- should be 6-10V when cranking, 0V otherwise (black wire with yellow tracer on starter)
7 - throttle valve should be opened at engine stop and cranking
8 - too much to list
9 - possible but doesn't seem likely as it runs OK when started

This is a very brief rundown - the FSM has over 100 pages dedicated to the TBI system. If you need any more info PM me.

(offtopic)
Speaking of crazy things with the steering column, whenever I turn on the head lights in my Tracker, the seatbelt light comes on

It sounds like your dash lights are grounding through the seatbelt light circuit (faulty ground) or the seatbelt lamp is part way out of the socket.

Have you made sure the fuel pump is priming the system? your pump should humm for at least 8sec's then stop. Hope this helps.
P.S When you first turn the key on.

Thanks for all the good tips.   Im going wheelin this weekend and wont have time try any of these till probabally Monday or tuesday.

Seriosly thanks,
Mike