Well, not so much deep thinking as just pondering the issue of CV shafts in relation to A-arms.

My main question is do the CV's and the A-arms have to line up to flex well? I was thinking a longer A-arm would give more leverage which translates to more flex, but I didn't know if I'd need to have a special differential made up for it... here's a pic:


What do you think? Would the center picture work, or would it have to be set up like the last picture?

Nice drawings!  If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me, but my understanding is as follows:

With Figure 2 you'd run into problems with the different radii of the cv shafts and the longer arms.  As the arm swings up from where it is now, the outside ends of the cv shafts will move further out horizontally than the hub carrier on the arm will move.  Ideally, the center points of the cv shafts should be oriented within the same vertical axis.  The cv cups can eat up a little bit of this difference, but I don't think enough.

So, Figures 1 and 3 work because the radii of the arms and shafts are nearly the same, so the movement in the horizontal axis is nearly the same, with no risk of the risk of bottoming out in the inside of the cups, or pulling the cage out of the cup (for non-extreme angles).

- Craig

What I propose doing is to use the stock
arm pivot points, and lengthen the A-arms
out further, then eliminate the CV Cups with
a slip shaft instead

Zig and I PM'ed  about this, it's going to happen,
I just don't have the time and $$ to do it right
now, I need some equipment too, I figure the
CV shafts could be lengthened and make the front
sit about 2-3 " higher and keep the CVs at the same
angle

Wild

Im pretty sure the middle one would be fine.

If you add more flex you need to add it upward only. If you go much further down it causes the drag link and idler arm  to bend under load. I used to play with struts from a w body gm with over 8 inches of travel in the shaft (12 or 13 inches at the wheel) and thats what kind of trouble I would have. I would just add a pair of OME struts to it. A while back I came to the conclusion that rather than more flex I wanted even flex, meaning that if I drive up an RTI ramp the front and rear should max out at the same time. I played with moving weight on the vehicle and widening the front end (causes the front to flex easier) to get that even flex.

Im not trying to say not to do it just a heads up on my past travels down a similar road.

BTW are you locked in the front. Rear?

Mike  

Mike, there's only one thing wrong with his pics.............where's the wings?  

Im pretty sure the middle one would be fine.

If you add more flex you need to add it upward only. If you go much further down it causes the drag link and idler arm  to bend under load. I used to play with struts from a w body gm with over 8 inches of travel in the shaft (12 or 13 inches at the wheel) and thats what kind of trouble I would have. I would just add a pair of OME struts to it. A while back I came to the conclusion that rather than more flex I wanted even flex, meaning that if I drive up an RTI ramp the front and rear should max out at the same time. I played with moving weight on the vehicle and widening the front end (causes the front to flex easier) to get that even flex.

Im not trying to say not to do it just a heads up on my past travels down a similar road.

BTW are you locked in the front. Rear?

Mike  

Thanks for the input... I'll have to add that all up with my thoughts on the matter to try and work something out... I have two years to do that, though

So, was the front end widening mod just for a little easier flex, or was it a combiniation of things (moving the front wheels forward, getting in different CV shafts, etc)?

Also, while on the subject of IFS, when you do Exploder CV's, do you have to do the front end widening mod for them to fit, or will they fit stock and need spacers after the widening?

Also, I'm not locked yet... that'll come when I get an anvil/SFA... depending on where things go from now



Wild: A slipyoke shaft would be freaking awesome on a CV shaft... would a Sammy driveshaft's telescoping portion fit in the CV area, or is that even too big? Also, how much do Sammy rear DS's go for used these days?




EDIT: Now here's an idea for a small diff-drop to go along with everything to get better CV angles...


I would imagine that a small (1-2") differential crossmember drop would help out immensly with CV angles, plus steering could be corrected by simply placing the tierods on top of the knuckle instead of below to keep everything lined up and eliminate bump steer... I would think, at least.

This diff drop would be accompanied by a 1-2" a-arm drop with custom brackets (made to be a couple inches wider) and 2" spring spacers to add a bit of lift.

Here's a pic of everything all spaced out (added in a line at each for a point of reference):

I like the drawing, so I hacked it and
used it, I've been meaning to make a
drawing like this on, so Thanks, it saved
me a lot of time in the drafting department

So here is my take on the hack job I want
to do




I think a Sammy DS might be close enough
to use, that was where I was going to start.

Wild

Mike, there's only one thing wrong with his pics.............where's the wings?  

Holy Poop Look who showed back up Where you been
Zig

Zig and I PM'ed  about this, it's going to happen,
I just don't have the time and $$ to do it right
now, I need some equipment too, I figure the
CV shafts could be lengthened and make the front
sit about 2-3 " higher and keep the CVs at the same
angle

Wild

No PM But I have my CV problems fixed now Still let ma know what you have up your sleeve
Zig

I like the drawing, so I hacked it and
used it, I've been meaning to make a
drawing like this on, so Thanks, it saved
me a lot of time in the drafting department

So here is my take on the hack job I want
to do




I think a Sammy DS might be close enough
to use, that was where I was going to start.

Wild

won't that widen the front end out like 1.5'? Is that how much everything needs to be extended to get the slip yokes to fit in?

Do ya have any figures on how long the slip portion of the Sammy DS is? How much travel does it have?

You're using stock arms still, correct? If you were to extend them out, couldn't you make some sort of 'bend' to drop the arms down a bit, or would you be fabbing up entirely new arms altogether?

Also, I don't have a winch on the front of my vehicle or a very heavy bumper, so would going with a lower spring rate in the front even out the flex? The Calmini springs feel rock hard under my rig. :-/

I am going into a drafting and design program shortly at ITT Tech, I guess I should actually start using some drafting software instead of Photoshop

Mike:
Your modified front end is about 5" of lift altogether, correct? What are you doing as far as your struts are concerned? Are you still using the Calmini spacers w/ flipped mounts and OME struts, or do you have custom spacers?

won't that widen the front end out like 1.5'? Is that how much everything needs to be extended to get the slip yokes to fit in?

Do ya have any figures on how long the slip portion of the Sammy DS is? How much travel does it have?

You're using stock arms still, correct? If you were to extend them out, couldn't you make some sort of 'bend' to drop the arms down a bit, or would you be fabbing up entirely new arms altogether?

Also, I don't have a winch on the front of my vehicle or a very heavy bumper, so would going with a lower spring rate in the front even out the flex? The Calmini springs feel rock hard under my rig. :-/

I am going into a drafting and design program shortly at ITT Tech, I guess I should actually start using some drafting software instead of Photoshop

Yes I want to widen the front 3-4",  I'm not
sure how much room I'm going to need, but I
know the stock CV shafts can't go as wide as
I want, so I have to fab something to fit the
application.

Sammy DS has about 4-5" of slip total, 3" is
usable, I don't know if it's enough, I think it
will be, the stock CV cup is only 2" and I don't
think the difference in the new A-arms is going
to change the CV shaft movment distance much
if any at all.

I will bend the arms some, but the shafts need
to be protected from offroad obsticles and such,
so only slightly curved.

If you get wider wheels or a wide track the spring
rate will soften, I figure I need a 700 PSI spring
for this A-arm mod so your Calmini springs should
feel better once you go wider

Wild

Yes I want to widen the front 3-4",  I'm not
sure how much room I'm going to need, but I
know the stock CV shafts can't go as wide as
I want, so I have to fab something to fit the
application.

Sammy DS has about 4-5" of slip total, 3" is
usable, I don't know if it's enough, I think it
will be, the stock CV cup is only 2" and I don't
think the difference in the new A-arms is going
to change the CV shaft movment distance much
if any at all.

That sounds neat... be sure to post lots of pics for me to copy when I go to work on mine

I will bend the arms some, but the shafts need
to be protected from offroad obsticles and such,
so only slightly curved.

What about just making skids on the arms? Here's a pic of one of my ideas for a custom A-Arm:


and a quick animation I did for the hell of it:

If you get wider wheels or a wide track the spring
rate will soften, I figure I need a 700 PSI spring
for this A-arm mod so your Calmini springs should
feel better once you go wider

Wider than 33x13.50's on 15x10's?

We'll see how the Calmini spring does once I do some of these ideas to my rig


A few more questions:
First, what is the spring rate of the Calmini 3" front spring?
Also, what vehicles have CV joints that can flex alot and are readily available in scrapyards and junkers?

Mike:
Your modified front end is about 5" of lift altogether, correct? What are you doing as far as your struts are concerned? Are you still using the Calmini spacers w/ flipped mounts and OME struts, or do you have custom spacers?

I also have a 1 inch spacer. One other thing to keep in mind is the tie rods need to be flipped to the top to retain steering geometry. You will need to taper the holes.

Mike